Cuba

[Marty]

This discussion was getting lost in the BB thread so I decided to start a new one.

I think the US completely missed the boat on Cuba. Instead of trying to build relations with them and open the country to US tourist and investment dollars, the US has allowed Hugo Chavez of Venezuela to stroll in and sign huge deals to develop the natural resources (i.e. oil) of Cuba.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-23-chavez-cuba_n.htm?loc=interstitialskip

There are several alarming points besides the scale and scope of the deals.

"Communist Party newspaper Granma quoted Vice President Carlos Lage as saying that Venezuela and Cuba have now signed more than $7 billion in deals this year. The new agreements come as Chavez continues to expand his oil-rich nation's largesse and influence across the region through cheap petroleum deals."


Here the US is worried about little ol Cuba and ignoring the influence of people like Chavez, who openly says what he is trying to do.

"During the summit, Chavez talked up his effort to use discount oil to build alliances in Latin America and the Caribbean and diminish U.S. influence in the region."

Anyone else worried about his guy?

[BahamaAngie]

I am oblivious to him but getting back to the subject of visiting Cuba, I for one, would not feel safe there and would NEVER visit. I believe they are not very fond of us Americans. Abaco is much safer.

[Abacoparrott]

If we had opened up and allowed new wells in Northern Alaska 15 years ago, we wouldn't even be mentioning Chavez.......ken

[Marty]

....now there's a hot button topic.

I'm not biting. I see it easily getting out of hand.

[Patty&Rudi]

Angie -
Cubans love Americans (and Canadians, and people who have money to spend) and many travel through other countries just to go to the resorts there. They are desperate for tourist dollars, and go out of their way to be kind and warm.

I haven't been - I see no reason.

But wasn't Chavez the one who sold, or was going to sell, oil to a New England state, was it, because the prices in the US were so high and he could offer a more reasonable cost?

[DrRalph]

....now there's a hot button topic.

I'm not biting. I see it easily getting out of hand.

Marty's correct; please avoid a discussion involving US partisan politics.

[Floridacargocat]

Facts and perception.
A fact is the current position of the US Government vis-a-vis the current type of government in Cuba. Both will change (one through a democratic process, the other one through age and possible upheaval; further, Cuba just has to look at the economic development of China).
Canada, Europe and other countries are investing heavily in Cuba (and not only in tourism-related sectors). US companies are not allowed (directly or even indirectly).
Currently Cuba is accessible for US citizens only in a carefully government-controlled way. Once the situation has changed (and hopefully with less pain than in former Yugoslavia), then Cuba will offer a lower-cost tourism product than the Bahamas).
Mass tourism will be a key product for Cuba, which will leave The Abacos for those who make a deliberate decision not to be part of the tourist crowd.
There will be one decisive factor - hopefully in favour of The Abacos: quality of the product. A customer is and will always be willing to pay for quality, even in some more remote destinations.
BTW, once Cuba opens up, flights will be cheap, way cheaper than going from FLL to MHH. Reasons: Volume. distance will not be a decisive factor. LCC will/may have already applied for routes with the US Government.
Perception on safety. The Canadians, Brits, Krauts, French and a few others fly in droves to Cuba. I still have to come across any negative report in major publications in Europe. And that is the conundrum. You have a certain type of government, which wants to get foreign exchange through tourists, so they do whatever is necessaryregarding the safety and security of tourists. What will happen once this type of government is changed, nobody knows at the moment. How was the security situation for tourists before 1959? Anybody wants to compare?
The Bahamas (and Abacos) have a lot of unique advantages. They just have to play it right.

[gazeboman]

If Cuba were to open up today, The Bahamas (Abacos) would have a superior product. Assuming that the optimum experience is a combination of natural environment, services and a broad range of accomodation, the Abacos would be better. However within a short period of time, Cuba would become the superior experience. Cuba's out Islands are greater in number, diversity and the diving is equal if not better. Those that want to experience a natural and pristine environment will find it, at least until the likes of DLC et al invade & destroy. The people are friendly and eager to please. I have never heard of a security issue. The biggest factor though, will be economic. At least for a few years it will be far cheaper in Cuba. The point for the Bahamas and Bahamians is: By taking short term gains by way of massive developments, degrading the environment and increasing costs for the tourist, you will not be able to compete with Cuba down the road and will likely lose the vast majority of the tourist income you now enjoy.

[Abacoparrott]

Marty's correct; please avoid a discussion involving US partisan politics.

Sorry guys and gals......didn't mean to create a "hot" button. It was simply my way of saying "worry 'bout our own backyard before worrying about Chavez's" . just trying to answer Marty's question. My cousin lives in Anchorage and I get an Alaskan's perspective. I quess we'll just have to let someone else solve this one......Ken:o

[papanasty]

The truth of the matter is that any American that wants to travel to Cuba can do it now and have been doing it for years! All ya have to do is fly to Nassau and then fly to Cuba from Nassau,they welcome Americans with open arms and Americans have been traveling there for years, they just do'nt stamp your passport when you get there so the US never knows you were there I thought every one that travels the Bahamas new that! Papanasty:) :)

[gazeboman]

Most Americans traveling to Cuba do it through Canada. Because of the restrictions, most americans won't do it. Most people believe that when castro is gone the travel restrictions will be eased and busness restrictions for americans will also go away. When that happens a whole new world will open up to the average american and they will go there in large numbers.

[papanasty]

There doing it in huge numbers now! Why would you go all the way to Canada when you can fly there from Nassau? Papa:confused:

[BahamaAngie]

No, I understood that Americans could not go and Canadians could but thought they did NOT like the Americans. I also have read some books based on Cuba and I felt very uncomfortable and would not fee safe there. I want to be somewhere where I feel safe and I mostly do in Abaco.

[gazeboman]

There doing it in huge numbers now! Why would you go all the way to Canada when you can fly there from Nassau? Papa:confused:
Huge is a relative term. There are no accurate numbers available as to the exact numbers of americans traveling to cuba. However most estimates I have heard make the americans a small percentage of total cuban tourism. Again the point is, when restrictioons are lifted there will be a great deal more americans in cuba.

More of the population base of the US is closer to a Canadian point of entry into cuba than Nassau. Also there are more flights thru canada than Nassau. The last time I went, the Canadian route was cheaper although I did price going through Nassau. I would have had to fly Bahamas air! I have had so many nightmares with them I'd rather stay home than fly with them again!!

[trubahamian]

Nastie is right man.My American brother in law has taken his boat frum here to Cuba several times.I went along once. It was a great trip,they love my brother in law,at Hemingway Marina,remembered him and treated us very well. We returned to the Bahamas,checked in.....no problem man.

[culp]

A friend of mine went a couple of years ago...via Mexico...and loved it. He said it was like California in the 1950's. However, he also said everything was very outdated and worn and old. He's not a resort kind of guy-likes to find the heart of a place, so maybe his perspective was different than the norm? Needless to say, it was an adventure.

[SamFamAustin]

I've been up in Canada and the French-speaking folks particularly around Quebec don't really love Americans all that much, although Toronto is a wonderful, inviting city for Americans, perhaps the cleanest city I have ever seen.

Mexico is actually more threatening to me because we get news of all the border warfare and "narcoticos" every day. There was a two hour shoot-out in Rio Brava near the border just yesterday. From what I can tell the safest places for Americans there are in the interior mountains where new resorts and retirement communities are being built, quite safe ... not that I'm ready for the old timer's farm yet, but prices for everything including open heart surgery are about one tenth those in the US.

Note: the area just below San Diego on the Baja, a surfer's dreamland, now has a travel advisory against it. Bummer, dude!

Cuba I don't know. My parents didn't see much violence or bad attitude in the least, not ever once. The only weird thing I heard was that if you get caught taking a picture of a military installation, they might take your camera no matter how expensive it is. Maybe I don't know anything though. Ask before you shoot, maybe?

By comparison the Abacos is a cake-walk. My folks have been to interior China, Mali in Africa, and even Syria in the outbacks. Now those places are just incomprehensibly tough to negotiate, guided at every step with a secret government official. /sammie

[DrRalph]

if you get into trouble, theft, disease, legal problems, there is no US consulate to help, you are on your own.

[culp]

No consulate would make me forget that trip.

Sammie-what area in Baja are you talking about? These days I would not drive down to Mexico unless I was with a local, though have a trip planned in August to fly to San Miguel de Allende. Last year we took a taxi from the boarder to an Ensenada resort, and had no problem, though I wasn't exactly comfortable with the idea of the taxi ride. When you see teenagers in camo with rifles behind (what do you call those, Sammie, with the what looks like sand bags stacked up like a short wall?) ya get a bit nervous!:eek:

[papanasty]

I have freinds that have been going there for at least ten to twelve years and have had the oppurtunity to go there many times and i would have already went there if i was not married because it is a single mans parradise and many many Bahamians have went there and found there soul mates there and have brought them here and gotten married and have children and not once in all those years has any one ever said anything bad about Cuba or not once have i been told of any one ever being threatened or has any one ever complained about the way they were treated there, the Cuban people are very nice people and greet you there with open arms for any one to even suggest that Cuba is a danger to any ones saftey does not have a clue what they are talking about! You have a better chance of being killed or mugged in Miami than any were in Cuba Papanasty :D :D :D

[SamFamAustin]

Hey Culp, this is the AP wire story I read yesterday or so ... sounded ominous to me, anyway.

http://www.startribune.com/world/13287096.html

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

With all the "Company" spooks, you can bet they know about every US citizen that visits Cuba, no matter what route they take to get there! I'm not that into thrill-seeking, and if one slips up.....like Doc say's, no one's got your back!

[culp]

Thanks Sammie. That's exactly why I say I wouldn'r drive down these days.:mad: It's a real shame.

[Abacoparrott]

Hypothetical question for Half........if I flew to Nassau then bought a ticket to fly to Havana WHILE IN NASSAU and after flying to Havana they DID NOT stamp my passport......how would "big brother" know that I had been to Havana? I am one of the most skeptical folks in the world regarding US government and it's intrusion on our privacy, but I can't figure this one out......Ken

[SamFamAustin]

Passenger screening computer stuff shared with Interpol and and NSA? I know my name is in there because I get to do the "terrorist perp walk" every time I fly! Note to self: wear underwear next time! :confused:

[Marty]

But if "they" know about it and it's illegal, why is nothing done about it? Selective enforcement of federal laws?? Seems a little far fetched to me.:confused:

[Patty&Rudi]

No, I understood that Americans could not go and Canadians could but thought they did NOT like the Americans. I also have read some books based on Cuba and I felt very uncomfortable and would not fee safe there. I want to be somewhere where I feel safe and I mostly do in Abaco.

They love and welcome Americans, Angie. I know many people who have gone and who love it.
I don't see the attraction...

[Patty&Rudi]

I've been up in Canada and the French-speaking folks particularly around Quebec don't really love Americans all that much, although Toronto is a wonderful, inviting city for Americans, perhaps the cleanest city I have ever seen.
/sammie

Sam,

Most of Quebec pretty much hates the rest of North America! Well, especially if they speak English.

Toronto is like NYC was 20 years ago - before it was safe in NYC. A big city, tall buildings and loads of traffic and crime.

Ottawa is much more like Abaco, the national capital and one of the most beautiful "cities" in the world (though in 10 minutes you can be on a farm, on horseback or skiing in the mountains). Quiet, calm, warm and inviting.

[Patty&Rudi]

Hey Culp, this is the AP wire story I read yesterday or so ... sounded ominous to me, anyway.

http://www.startribune.com/world/13287096.html

We have patients who were kidnapped in Mexico. They are the founders of a Waldorf School there. They released the wife in two weeks, but the husband is still in captivity.

This is how some people make a living. The people are rarely hurt, and they are released on average in six months, for money of course. The less you have, the more they hold out.

Our patient has been captive for going on four months now. He is a gentle and sensitive man, and we are worried about how he will fare.

We've never ever considered a trip to Mexico! Never will, not even after it is part of the North American Union.

[papanasty]

Evidently the US has better things to worry about on what americans do when they go to the Bahamas,In fact i asked a few of them today that have been going there for the last 10 years and never have they ever been questioned or has the subject of Cuba ever come up to them if and when they return to the US for one reason or the other, the bottom line is it is no BIG DEAL to go to Cuba from the Bahamas it is done every day out of Nassau by Americans. I quess if you got a yellow streak down your back and feel big brother might catch you it is'nt for ya to go! There are plenty Americans that travel there for surgical procedures a freind of mine went there and got all new teeth uppers and lowers implants the total cost was $1.500.00 us plus hotel and airfare and got it all done in 2 days :D :D :D

[Abacoparrott]

Papa, as I understand it, the Cuban government has made it illegal to use american dollars in Cuba now. If you exchange American dollars for the NEW Cuban peso then you have to pay a 10% exchange fee. How is this working out? Ken

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

They're busy watching the threats, known smugglers, trafficers in arms/drugs, etc. and our prisons are too full now to bother with the individual tourists that KNOWINGLY break the law by travelling there without State Department approval. Has nothing to do with a yellow streak, just common sense, they still know you're there. Remember the "Maine", and remember Grenada, and the new association with Venezuela. This is still a Commie country!

[SamFamAustin]

You raise a side point, Half. The Bahamas were once drug and human smuggling routes to the Florida Coast. They were pretty thick back in the 70's and early 80's if my memory serves me right. The US Coast Guard and the Bahamian government cleaned that up pretty good, don't you think?

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

Yeah, it ended with Pindling's long reign. Robert Vesco was drug running from Columbia and other So. American countries, via the Bahamas, with a fleet of go-fast boats. For every boat the Coast Guard would intercept, he'd replace with 10 more. Odd how it abruptly stopped with the then new FNM party, and infrastructure in Nassau and throughout the Bahamas improved.

[TurtleDreams]

No consulate would make me forget that trip.

Sammie-what area in Baja are you talking about? These days I would not drive down to Mexico unless I was with a local, though have a trip planned in August to fly to San Miguel de Allende. Last year we took a taxi from the boarder to an Ensenada resort, and had no problem, though I wasn't exactly comfortable with the idea of the taxi ride. When you see teenagers in camo with rifles behind (what do you call those, Sammie, with the what looks like sand bags stacked up like a short wall?) ya get a bit nervous!:eek:

Jeana, you'll love San Miguel! It will help if you speak some Spanish; I was with my sister in-law who is fluent so I didn't need to speak much, but there are also a lot of English and Bilingual speakers so you should be fine if you don't. The weather in August, which is when I went also, was beautiful! I never felt unsafe even at night. Be sure you poke into as many courtyards as possible. There are so many beautiful spaces behind the walls lining the narrow streets!
Susan

[culp]

Thanks Susan. Aren't you the one who shared photos of San Miguel not too long ago?
I'm going with a girlfriend who went last year for the first time, and fell in love..as does everyone apparently! It sounds like a very stimulating mixture of all nationalities living there. I'm looking forward to it.:D

[TurtleDreams]

Yup, that was me!

[SamFamAustin]

Anyway, aside from Cuba being closed to American direct flights and some violence in Mexico, the fact is those destinations are cheap. If you stay away from the resorts and chi-chi restaurants, it is dirt cheap. Many surfers retired in little villages along the Cabo south of San Diego, it was so cheap ... cheap and beautiful and some of the best beach breaks.

That's what's working against the Bahamas, at least in my opinion. The duties are exorbitant and the costs of goods is mind-blowing. All this hit me when I read that Nippers was serving a piece of toast for $6 and two eggs for $12. In Mexico, slightly off the beaten track, you could be eating dinner lobster with all the fixings for the same price range ($8-10).

I would be as insensitive to say that the Bahamian government seems to be pricing themselves out of the market for the common person, as probably even Rachael Ray could eat on $40 a day in the Abacos. But the nation does have quite a reputation for being pricey. /sam

[BahamaAngie]

I guess it is the price you pay for their paradise but I was thinking recently how relieved I feel about our upcoming trip when it comes to prices. There are many inexpensive places to eat and we can shop at WalMart, KMart, and Costco. I don't know if they have a Target yet. After we hit one of those than we go on to our more secluded rental. Need to find a beach that will be somewhat comparable to Abaco. It is getting closer now and finally tied up the loose strings.

[Patty&Rudi]

We received our International Living magazine yesterday, and the front page is - Buy in Belize before the Europeans do.

-- touting it as a paradise, with incredible prices for land or homes or condos - and it is a British Commonwealth Country as well.

Never been to Belize...

[islandfever]

Something seems hypocritical to me about this entire discussion. I know it is the policy of this forum and generally those who are at least the major contributors here that we respect Bahamian Law, and I fully agree. I do not see nor do I believe that it would be tolerated to allow discussion on how to sneak items through Bahamian Customs, how to Violate Bahamian Immigration Law, or how to violate the fishing regulations and get away with it. Yet we are openly discussing, even glorifying, how to violate American Law. Some are even debating the best country to fly out of to Cuba and how to fake your passport by not having it stamped. It is simply against the law for Americans to travel to Cuba or purchase products made in Cuba period. By the way this includes cigars advertised and sold in Abaco EVEN IF consumed in Abaco or elsewhere. It is called the "Trading With The Enemy Act." You can Google it if you care to read the details. I don't believe this question violates Dr. Ralph's partisian politics rule. This has been the law through every administration for fifty years. I am not argueing the merits of the law any more than I question how many fish you can catch in the Bahamas but just the apparent hypocracy. Do we advocate obeying Bahamian Law and violating American Law? Maybe I was just raised differently.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

Islandfever and I seem to have our yellow streaks in the same basket! I'm too old for thrill seeking and pushing the edge, especially for something that can carry time in a Fed Pen. Don't need a new wife named "Bubba"!

[Abacoparrott]

Good points 'Fever, I think that this discussion began with the "anticipation" of Cuba opening up and simply progressed from there. I don't think it is a secret that THOUSANDS of Americans are in Cuba as we speak. It seems that your description of breaking the law is considered no more serious than speeding by many. (I am sure all of us have done that). Whether this attitude is right or wrong is up for debate since the law itself is very questionable at best. (were we prevented from visiting Russia during the cold war?) I am positive of two things: 1. Americans will continue to visit Cuba and 2. Cuba will open up legally in the not-too-distant future........Ken

[trubahamian]

Something seems hypocritical to me about this entire discussion. I know it is the policy of this forum and generally those who are at least the major contributors here that we respect Bahamian Law, and I fully agree. I do not see nor do I believe that it would be tolerated to allow discussion on how to sneak items through Bahamian Customs, how to Violate Bahamian Immigration Law, or how to violate the fishing regulations and get away with it. Yet we are openly discussing, even glorifying, how to violate American Law. Some are even debating the best country to fly out of to Cuba and how to fake your passport by not having it stamped. It is simply against the law for Americans to travel to Cuba or purchase products made in Cuba period. By the way this includes cigars advertised and sold in Abaco EVEN IF consumed in Abaco or elsewhere. It is called the "Trading With The Enemy Act." You can Google it if you care to read the details. I don't believe this question violates Dr. Ralph's partisian politics rule. This has been the law through every administration for fifty years. I am not argueing the merits of the law any more than I question how many fish you can catch in the Bahamas but just the apparent hypocracy. Do we advocate obeying Bahamian Law and violating American Law? Maybe I was just raised differently.

I guess I missed all the subtrafuge you mention in the previopus posts. I just can't seem to find them. If Cuba is an enemy of the US,why didn't ya'll fight them instead of the Vietnamese?

[SamFamAustin]

Well, it turns out it is completely "legal" to go to Cuba after all.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.pdf

While there are strict limitation limitations on "transactions" with Cuba including general travel, the intended purpose is to limit imports, exports, and commerce traded in dollars. The Treasury is particularly concerned with air cargo, ships, and smuggling (human drug, fish, and otherwise). I suppose if you wanted to be perfectly legal you could get a transaction approval for being a freelance photographer for the Abaco Forums! :D

-sammie

[gazeboman]

I guess I missed all the subtrafuge you mention in the previopus posts. I just can't seem to find them. If Cuba is an enemy of the US,why didn't ya'll fight them instead of the Vietnamese?


This thread actually began at post # 86 of the thread "Breaking news on Bakers Bay"

[visitortime]

Quote"I guess I missed all the subtrafuge you mention in the previopus posts. I just can't seem to find them. If Cuba is an enemy of the US,why didn't ya'll fight them instead of the Vietnamese?"

That was unwarranted. The discussion as Islandfever pointed out was about illegal travel to Cuba. It is illegal.

I am asserting no personal opinion about the current travel embargo.

My personal opinion is centered around the awful wet foot dry foot policy. It is in essence a game. If you can make it...you pass go, go to Krome Ave in Fla City, collect roughly $6,500 a person, contact a relative or friend and you are out with papers and a date to meet to officially begin your legal immigration process within 7 or so hours. If however you are intercepted in US waters you are surrounded by armed coast guardsmen, taken into custody, processed and sent back.

If you draw the worst card you are intercepted by the RBDF in the Bahamas and you are looking at 2 to three months before you are sent back. 2-3 months in a cel with a bucket for a toilet, an open pipe for a shower, little or no food, no due process ,no health care, no lawyer, no phone call,and eventual return . Islandfever had a good point.

Why so hostile t-bahamian? The Vietnam reference was a bit much.

Wet foot dry foot equals this: touch base you're good. Too many innocent mathers fathers and children are then trying to reach solid ground.Base. It's dangerous and encourages the dissatisfied Cubans to try to make the journey. That results in smuggling for a profit in go fast boats and the use of home-made crafts. Everyone in the Bahamas has known for a long time about how people from the US circumvent travel restrictions. Most people do not publish that info on a public forum. As Ralph and others have said, if you have any trouble as a US citizen in Cuba you are on your own. As far as living on $10.00 a day. Cubans would LOVE to have $10.00 a day. Cubans live on so little. Not because the want to BUT because they are forced to. And ANY visitor ,besides having to document any travel outside the resort at which they are staying, would NEVER be able to pay for a room with that much less eat for $10.00 a day.

[SamFamAustin]

Gee whowwy-wow, where'd ye get all that vim and vigor, VT? Wet/dry foot doesn't have much to do with American tourists sneaking into Cuba for a peek, either officially or in the "gray market" though Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, or other nation.

And I'll have to say that many people travel in many countries that are blacklisted by our wonderful US government. Apparently certain parts of Syria are to-die-for beautiful. Oops, a terroristical country, my bad. Sorry, don't know anybody who did that (har-har).

But at the end of the day, break out a map of the Carribe including the Bahamas, and see how small all those little out islands in the Abacos are compared to the huge land mass of Cuba. I think that is a legitimate fear to have. Cuba has over 3,700 miles of coastline, more than Texas or Florida and maybe both. I feel the pain but don't see any problems to fuss over for the next 2-5 years. Regards and be well,
/sammie

[trubahamian]

Quote"I guess I missed all the subtrafuge you mention in the previopus posts. I just can't seem to find them. If Cuba is an enemy of the US,why didn't ya'll fight them instead of the Vietnamese?"

That was unwarranted. The discussion as Islandfever pointed out was about illegal travel to Cuba. It is illegal.

I am asserting no personal opinion about the current travel embargo.

My personal opinion is centered around the awful wet foot dry foot policy. It is in essence a game. If you can make it...you pass go, go to Krome Ave in Fla City, collect roughly $6,500 a person, contact a relative or friend and you are out with papers and a date to meet to officially begin your legal immigration process within 7 or so hours. If however you are intercepted in US waters you are surrounded by armed coast guardsmen, taken into custody, processed and sent back.

If you draw the worst card you are intercepted by the RBDF in the Bahamas and you are looking at 2 to three months before you are sent back. 2-3 months in a cel with a bucket for a toilet, an open pipe for a shower, little or no food, no due process ,no health care, no lawyer, no phone call,and eventual return . Islandfever had a good point.

Why so hostile t-bahamian? The Vietnam reference was a bit much.

Wet foot dry foot equals this: touch base you're good. Too many innocent mathers fathers and children are then trying to reach solid ground.Base. It's dangerous and encourages the dissatisfied Cubans to try to make the journey. That results in smuggling for a profit in go fast boats and the use of home-made crafts. Everyone in the Bahamas has known for a long time about how people from the US circumvent travel restrictions. Most people do not publish that info on a public forum. As Ralph and others have said, if you have any trouble as a US citizen in Cuba you are on your own. As far as living on $10.00 a day. Cubans would LOVE to have $10.00 a day. Cubans live on so little. Not because the want to BUT because they are forced to. And ANY visitor ,besides having to document any travel outside the resort at which they are staying, would NEVER be able to pay for a room with that much less eat for $10.00 a day.

My questions were not meant to be hostile nor dis-respectful.Simply honest questions.I couldn't find any reference as to how to sneak back into coutries undocumented and many people have wondered why the US went to the other side of the globe to fight Communism when it was practiced by an [enemy of the US] country that pointed nuclear missles at it.I have never heard an answer to that question in all my years. Sorry if I threw a stone in the puddle and got you wet.Perhaps your spirit just don't take to me.

[islandfever]

Quote: And I'll have to say that many people travel in many countries that are blacklisted by our wonderful US government. Apparently certain parts of Syria are to-die-for beautiful. Oops, a terroristical country, my bad. Sorry, don't know anybody who did that (har-har).

SamFamAustin I do not find your sarcasm and misinformation becoming of a Senior Forum Oracle. It is not funny to an American veteran who has served in this area and has had fellow servicemen killed by munitions and insurgents supplied by Syria.

[trubahamian]

I felt Sammie was just expressing a little satire. I for one am well aware of the feelings of US Serviceman.My Sister's Husband is a decorated Viet Nam Vet, that left an eye in Viet Nam. Nevertheless,he has a great sense of humour and loves Asian "particularly Vietnamese" people. Mabe just a mistake of Syntax and Context?

[BahamaAngie]

I don't think Sam would ever hurt anyone!

[Patty&Rudi]

Islandfever -- E-mail and forums often are the very worst places for emotions to be conveyed, and they are so easy to misinterpret...

[SamFamAustin]

Wow, the Senior Forum Idiot here was trying to be funny in the second paragraph, with a really (what I thought was a) good conclusion about how big Cuba is compared to the Bahamas. Obviously I have proven my own idiocy more than anything else ... although my intentions were to bring the discussion back home to the Abacos and avoid American politics and policy.

The US politics is what gets us in trouble here, anyway.

[trubahamian]

Wow, the Senior Forum Idiot here was trying to be funny in the second paragraph, with a really (what I thought was a) good conclusion about how big Cuba is compared to the Bahamas. Obviously I have proven my own idiocy more than anything else ... although my intentions were to bring the discussion back home to the Abacos and avoid American politics and policy.

The US politics is what gets us in trouble here, anyway.

Your satire was not misinterpreted by me my brudda. Carry on smartly!

[DrRalph]

Easy folks, it's the weekend, we're all friends here.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

Cuba doesn't supply the drugs that Vietnam did, and still does. Business war, not as much political.

[SamFamAustin]

Ah, Vietnamese food, my favorite. I sure miss the Viet restaurants in Austin and Houston ... all they know is fried food and Tex-Mex down here. Nuc mahm anybody? :eek:

And Cuba Libre! That's a song by my favorite horny band, the Bongodogs (http://www.bongodogs.com/). Click the link and now Ken, see that gal who plays the trombone there, she can ... anyway, Cuba Libre is a favorite and it means "free Cuba."

Horny band, come on, lighten up here! And, the gals love to dance to them.

Also, much to our Abaco Forum pleasure experience, Cuba Libre is also a very famous drink, one that we know as rum & coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_Libre). But it has to be a very special kind of rum with special limes, right DrRalph?

And Patti P, isn't that what fuels your huzzy's B.A.M?

[DrRalph]

Also, much to our Abaco Forum pleasure experience, Cuba Libre is also a very famous drink, one that we know as rum & coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_Libre). But it has to be a very special kind of rum with special limes, right DrRalph?

I think it has to have a lime wedge to be a true cuba libre.

[islandfever]

Sam I appreciate your response to my post. No hard feelings.

[Abacoparrott]

yeah, yeah....Sammie, I know......my wife plays the trumpet......:D ken

[SamFamAustin]

Aside from your wife's breath control, :D I forgot to ask about the Atalaya and how she's doing, Ken. You got her whipped into shape for a cruise down the coast and maybe across the pond? I'll be glad to help deliver the boat with ya, just an offer. I might pack some Tecate and a fishing pole if you're interested ...

[OldHatt]

http://www.cubamania.com/cuba/


This is a message board and information site that seems to have contributors from all over, including boaters. Lots of Canadian opinions on here.

I have looked at it a couple of times. Cuba gets mixed reviews but generally the opinions of visitors and tourists are positive.

[islandfever]

I was in Gitmo while in the Navy. It has a beautiful climate. Hopefully the political climate will be too one day.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

[QUOTE=islandfever;21443]I was in Gitmo while in the Navy. It has a beautiful climate. Hopefully the political climate will be too one day.[/QUOTE

Our kids in harm's way would no doubt exchange accommodations with the enemy combatants at Gitmo! Our prisoners are always treated better than our front-line troops. Whose rights are being violated??!?