Gambling

[MotuIti]

I use Google Alerts to flag items of interest relating to the Abacos.

Lately I've been getting lots of items relating to the possibility of Gambling in the Abacos. Seems the Prime Minister is open to the idea, and as one would expect, the Church groups are not.

Here are just two I received today
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=15840
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=15846

Anyway, What's your take? I'd be curious to see how others feel.

I for one, am against it. It would be the ruination of Abaco as we know it. Those reasons - too many to be brought up in this post, can be brought up by others. None the least of which, is the toll it would take financially on many Bahamians who can ill afford to "take a chance".

Frankly, I've always suspected that gambling is the underlying motivation of the mega-resort operations in Abaco in the first place. Weather they are completed, underway or being planned in Abaco.

Before you know it. Marsh Harbour could become another Freeport followed by the undoing of the picturesque laid back and quaint atmosphere of the Cays.

Just one mans opinion,

-Sandy
PS Heck, by then the water will be two feet higher due to global warming anyway.

[Shelby]

Wow!! Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water! What is it about the Bahamian government that drives it to work AGAINST its people? Why is the government so hell-bent on trashing the country's natural appeal and resources?

IMHO, this would be a completely dumbass move, and would show utter and complete disregard for the Abaco lifestyle and tourist set. I'd be VERY suprised if Abaconians let this proceed -- especially if they've seen what this type of "tourism" has done to Nassau and Freeport!

I'm just going to take a deep breath and be comforted by the following two words: Moon Bahamas*

A.

* For those of you who don't remember MB, it was another lame brained idea (dreamed up by apparent morons) that, thankfully, seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Google it - there still may be some info out there.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

This could easily become rant material. I am totally against.

[Patti Puzo]

I know I am just a visitor to these incredible islands, and I am not attempting to push my opinion on anyone, but that gives me a really sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hope this doesn't gain support by the supposition of providing more jobs. There could be no good that could come from such a calamity.:(

[SamFamAustin]

Down here on out sand spit there was a proposal that nearly passed to take a county park (similar to Crown lands I suppose) and convert it to a huge condo and casino facility, perhaps on 400-500 acres. Fortunately we were able to kill it (Save Isla Blanca Park).

For some reason, the developers really thought that we the people wanted the expensive crowd that own huge battlewagon fishing boats, needed a second or third condo dwelling, and really had to have gambling for big stakes and not just no video games where you win a rubber duck or something.

I know the Bahamian government is (or should be) concerned about their citizens gambling away their life's earnings while getting free booze from waitresses that look like hookers. So why is it so good for foreigners to do just that? Blood revenue or something vindictive?

My understanding is that big casinos will only consider large developments of 150 to 500 units plus over 50,000 square feet of floor space for gambling and buffet/restaurant space. That's HUGE. If you think Baker's Bay was an issue, wait until some of these mamas are proposed. /sammie

[Bill K]

One of my friends on GTC put it best, 'The day I have to start locking my doors is the day I'll think about leaving'. Lets hope not.

[mlmp]

Bahamians aren't allowed to gamble in casinos in the country. Only tourists from what I understand. I am very much opposed to the idea.

[DrRalph]

This could easily become rant material. I am totally against.

Half, if it's starts to get ugly, we'll move it to Rantland.

[rumrunner]

Did anyone read the article as to the reason why they may legalize it? For those who live here we can now gamble illegaly they are called "Web Shops" there are at least 5 in Marsh Harbour. They even have runners that come to your place of work so that you can play. They even have high tech receipt printers.
Currently Bahamians spend a least a 100+ million in the US on state lotteries, and we have to pay a fee to get the tickets. This does not include what is spent at the local level.
So if the government legalizes it they can tax it.
As far as casinos go they still have to be approved by government whether Bahamian or foreign. Also laws are already on the books that if you create a resort with X number of rooms you can apply for a casino.
As for the clergy they are afraid that revenue will decrease because people will spend more on the lottery.

[SamFamAustin]

That is true but Internet gambling is a problem everywhere and I am not sure if and how it could be regulated. Surely this is not about only allowing Web Gambling in the Abacos. Something ain't right here. /sam

[DaGoose]

Ugh, I need a drink. You just ruined my day, Sandy!:( :mad: :(

Tina

PS No hard feelings...you're just the messenger!

[SamFamAustin]

You know, I'm ready for one of them big ole TEENER NEENER NEENER moments now myself. Face it, as dependable as air traffic is, it's a gamble you can even get to the puro caliche white beaches of the Abacos. It's an odds-on risk we just gotta take. /sammie ;)

[DaGoose]

Aah, I feel better now. Hubby just came home with 4 nice halibut.
Sammie, does that mean I can do a Teener Neener Neener?:p

T

[SamFamAustin]

Oh yes by all means we are an equal opportunity NEENER-NEENER forum I suppose, love all the trip reports and pictures and fish and birds and ... Rick IS going to take a shower, right? :eek:

p.s., Rick, you have a good day on the big flattie-flukes today I heard? I think you'll do good in the Abacos on a 200-600 foot drop for grouper. Think you can brang some of them cannon ball weights on over? LOL!!!

[HTVFR]

Aah, I feel better now. Hubby just came home with 4 nice halibut.
Sammie, does that mean I can do a Teener Neener Neener?:p

T


What is a Teener Neener Neener ? Sorry, we lead a sheltered life here in Abaco.

Wanna gamble in Abaco ??? Yes (http://hopetownfirerescue.com/raffle.htm) ..........No (http://hopetownfirerescue.com/raffle.htm)

[Gayleupstairs]

I love to gamble and go to Vegas and/or Biloxi or Atlantic City once or twice a year. I hope someone in the Bahamas is listening when I say I have never been to Freeport or Nassau because that IS NOT THE EXPERIENCE I'M LOOKING FOR IN THE BAHAMAS. It's there, it's available to those who enjoy that sort of thing. Leave the unspoiled areas alone.

Granted - I'm an American, not a Bahamian. Not truly my business. Just my humble opinion.

[Gayleupstairs]

HTVFR -

I'll let Tina or Patti or Sam respond the your "teener neener neerer" question.

No, I don' want to gamble in Abaco. That doesn't mean I won't voluntarily buy a raffle ticket or two to support a local concern, like the HTVFR or the community swimming pool or the cancer society. Mr. Sherlock was a dear friend and I always bought whatever he was peddling was I was on-island. That's very different than organized casino gambling in my mind.

[rumrunner]

Sam, web shops are supposed to be an internet cafes, in fact that is what there shop liscence states,but they are fronts for numbers racket. Web shop started because Bahamians used go to these web acess points to see which numbers came up in the lottery drawings in Miami.
The numbers racket has been in the Bahamas for years but only few bothered to play because they felt they were rigged. So the owners of these games to remove this stigma just started to use the 3 ball and 4 ball lotteries in New York, Chicago and Miami, this way the patrons felt more secure and the business took off.
So at midday and in the evening persons would go to the web shops to see what numbers came up, (Bahamian lingo "fall"), so the proprieters just made it easy to purchase.

[SamFamAustin]

Well I'll be blowed, that was an excellent explanation Rumrunner and if Tina agrees, you get a NEENER NEENER NEENER. Honest I had no clue about the kind of gambling and it is much different than I thought ... thanks! Gosh life is complicated and not like you'd expect ...

Now for what a NEENER is. It is a derivative of "Nanny-Nanny-Boo-Boo" if you really have to ask, and over the years we changed it to NEENER on a whim, same idea. It means anything from "I got it right" to "I'm going to the Abacos you lame Americans." It is always meant in a very friendly way.

The ultimate NEENER besides being there (while we're here) would of course be winning something like the cool stuff on the HTVFR raffle, which I hope you all will support if you like that part of the Bahamas as much as we do.
-sammie

[Abacoparrott]

Before I make a comment on this POSSIBLE "Abaco gambling thang", let me lay some groundwork.

1. I worked four weeks a year for 6 straight years in Las Vegas.....Gambling never interested me one iota.......not even curious.

2. Some folks on other boards will say a tourist has no right to comment on a "Bahamian decision".......hogwash, it's the tourists who will be gambling....

3. Many Bahamians have no idea what kind of "element" and byproducts gambling brings along as "part of the baggage"......

4. Pay attention to any comments that folks on MOW might make regarding this potential lifestyle change......it will be interesting

Ok, here goes.....never say never but, if gambling ever comes to Abaco, I most likely won't be.....

Ken

[Beer Baron]

Ken: What an astute position.


We're not Bahamians. so our opinion matter little when compared to local events....

I'm a tourist, and I'm beggin and prayin to the Great Almighty that gambling stays out of the Abacos. Screw what "other Boards" may say unless they agree with me...

The criminal element that will take over is not one I'm happy to see coming, and it WILL come.

"The day I have to lock my door, I'll consider leafing"..

Dunno who said it, but they've got it right...

[TOLERance]

Oh for heavens sake....read the PM's opnion before you start running off on a tangent....rumrunner is right, they are talking about rampant gambling that already exists here, that tourists will never see, as it's only locals who play "numbers". It is present all through this country and the government is acknowledging that either they should close all the numbers houses OR legalize them and tax the income, thereby providing much needed revenue. Since the numbers houses are ubiquitous, legalizing them appears to be a solution. The PM was simply saying that either you enforce laws, or change them...and at no time did he refer to a casino in any way.

[PELLUCID]

Ask the locals in Georgetown what they think of gambling at the Four Seasons resort here. I think you'll get mostly negative opinions, at least that's what I hear standing in the checkout line at Exuma Market.

Gambling in the Exumas did result in a very fancy office of the Gaming Board overlooking Lake Victoria. I'm sure the government employees are very happy with their jobs. I'm sure they convey their happiness to the policy makers higher up. I'm not sure the ordinary Bahamian shares in their joy.

[SusieAndAl]

We won't comment on the pros or cons of this fact of life. But here's an interesting twist: web shops are incredibly well run. They use the latest technology, are completely transparent, very efficient and offer great customer service. There is much talk these days of creating a national lottery, but this simply won't work here against such ingrained competition (and the size of the payouts).

It is the height of hypocrisy to rail against crime and sin when the law of the land is so blatantly ignored and even embraced by all levels of society. The PM is simply acknowledging reality (much like the rest of the world is currently practicing); this has nothing to do with casinos.

And we won't even get into the roots of the law (which is deeply resented by many Bahamanians) forbidding Bahamians to gamble in their own country.

[TOLERance]

Unlike the assumption made here that Bahamians have no idea what will accompany gambling...most Bahamians are extremely well-traveled, and for generations they have been the target of most all criminal groups that exist or have existed...give them some credit, they are far more savvy than you may think. Pirates, rum runners, drug runners, gambling, it's all part of their communial awareness...most probably would not have liked the recalcitrant ancestors who left what is now the US in protest AND who probably locked their doors at night. Start thinking what The Bahamas as a country are... smart, educated, well paid and astute Christian citizens who are conducting an INTERNAL national discussion of how best to address a reality that exists in thier midst.

[culp]

Now wait a second, Sammie. To quote my 7 year old neighbor, Connor.... it's "Nanny, Nanny, poo poo".;)

[SamFamAustin]

Good point ... and us Americans are only second to the Irish in our addiction to gambling. They'd even bet on whether this thread topic would be moved to the Rant section! :D

By and far, the largest gambling racket in the world is Wall Street and all the financial markets. You can even bet that a stock will rise, lower, or explode in a massive write-off (yes, money is to me made in even a recession!). You can even bet on ships such as with cargo insurance, or register the ship itself (Bahamas is a leading flag of registry next to Panama).

But that's the problem, the government promotes legal gambling of all kinds but hates it when they don't get a slice of the action. Shock and horrors, you have people making and losing money in unregulated and untaxed Web Shops. So perhaps the "problem" is that it is an underground economy of sorts. -sammie

... and Culp, are you serious? ;)

[culp]

Sorry to have to break that to you, Sammie, but yes...I am very serious.

[DaGoose]

And usually a neener neener is accompanied by lifting your open right hand and placing your thumb on the tip of your nose and then wiggling your other fingers. Now let's all practice...:eek:

I think it's the possibility that with legalizing gambling in Abaco, it will be just that much easier for the big casinos to be built. Maybe this is not the case in this discussion but there's always that darn slippery slope to think about.

There aren't that many places left that don't have casinos, high rise resorts and cruise ships especially places as unique as the Abacos. As long as the gov't keeps those things out I don't have a problem with making these shops legal.

T

[SamFamAustin]

OK, Teener, I didn't read the instructions closely and now I have my left thumb stuck in my right nostril and it hurts to wiggle my fingers ... it is a dangerous and scary world out there. I am SOOOO glad my camera needs new batteries, not my best Kodak Moment. :p

[DaGoose]

OK, Teener, I didn't read the instructions closely and now I have my left thumb stuck in my right nostril and it hurts to wiggle my fingers ... it is a dangerous and scary world out there. I am SOOOO glad my camera needs new batteries, not my best Kodak Moment. :p

Sammie, you are TOO funny!:)

Teener

[PELLUCID]

It being Sunday, and I being a preacher's son, I'll say this: Bishop Hume and the others on the Bahamas Christian Council need to take a look at those big black books on their pulpits.

If they do, they'll read the story of a carpenter who called the religious leaders of his day hypocrites. It ended badly; the religious leaders had the carpenter put on show trial and executed by occupation troops.

Then they need to go look in the mirror, and think about what the carpenter said regarding the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of this world.

Maybe, just maybe, they'll conclude that criminal justice and tax policy are not subjects on which God is calling them to speak.

**************

I do not usually leave comments this caustic. I wish the Bloggy Boyz would come back. I miss their honesty. They ranted on this subject plenty, back when they were trying to build a better Bahamas.

[abacofever]

I am thinking this is old news. I believe it is already approved for Treasure Cay. I say this because a few years ago the last serious group looking to buy Treasure Cay Limited's holdings wanted and (I think) recieved Govt. approval for a smallish casino and hotel before they would move further. I think the Govt. said no casino lic. with less than 300 rooms. Not to worry. That group is gone and most likely will not come back. The point is I believe it is already basicly approved, maybe not for all the Abacos but this is not a new issue. An investment group or individual actualy starting a project that would be news. Its comming....just a matter of time and where ?

[PELLUCID]

Speaking of old news, should you ever come across a person of distinctly Italian appearance who has Bahamian citizenship, ask him or her what the story is. You'll hear something like "Back in the 60's, when the government was first setting up the casinos, they wanted to keep the Mafia out. So, they brought some Sicilians in to manage the casinos. My dad was one of them."

I kid you not! History is d**m interesting.

[Abacoparrott]

I, in fact, am the person who made the comment "MANY bahamians do not realize the element that will come with casinos........." JUST as many Americans do not. I carefully worded my comment to include "many" on purpose. There ARE many who haven't given thought to this part of the gambling world in EVERY country.....NOT just the Bahamas. As to the comment about the prime minister never mentioning casinos......this may be true. However, assuming that the PM WOULD ever consider allowing gambling in the Abacos, and considering that he HAS stated that the main source of revenue for the Bahamas IS tourism......I presume that he is an intelligent man and would do market research by finding out what the tourists actually want....so, I merely put my vote in early.......thought I would help him out a little bit.......not many appreciate the Abacos and it's people more than I......and I do not doubt that business would still be good in Abaco should gambling ever enter. However, the types of tourists who would be in Abaco WOULD be different than the ones that visit now.

Ken

[SamFamAustin]

Hey Ken thanks for the emails and this here response, but just warning ya, if you want to write Bahamian freestyle like Papa Nasty or some of the locals, take all them periods out and just work on the longest run-on sentence that you can, put a comma splice whenever you need to take a breath sometimes a space no period sometimes you know what I mean? Extra points for capitalizing certain words tho'. The Duke is on fire! The duke, the duke, the duke (sorry, a very old jazz/blues song). Good job mon.

Now if The Parrot Duke is on fire, Pellucid-Mon is burning like a sodium phosphorous military flare. He mentioned some very interesting things which I am still perambulating in my brain bucket (is there a Bahamian word for this other than "boonggy"?).

Bob, known here as Pellucid, mentions some nefarious Familia that I am quite acquainted with some - the Bonano family up in Connecticut and Rhode Island. I used to hang out with one of Joe Bonano's grand kids when we were young. They wanted to expand outside New York and were quite successful with the marina/condo/restaurant theme. You'll have to likker me up to get more than that, sailor!

[patw]

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=128&a=15872

[Abacoparrott]

hmmmm.......if you can't enforce the gambling law, how are you going to enforce the collection of taxes from it? Or is that NOT the goal? Annnd, if you DO collect taxes from the gambling that goes on in Abaco, how do you insure that the tax monies come back to Abaco from Nassau? This particular part of the gambling issue (locals only gambling) I agree, should not be the business of outsiders......only legal residents. I am just curious about this tax thang.......ken

[papanasty]

I can honestly say that i have never stuck a quarter in slot machine! EVER! Now as far as the rest of my family, thats another story, Although my father died 6 years ago,God rest his soul. He and my mother, who will be 80 in May of this year retired very comfortably in Sun City Arizona, My Dad called it the waitng room to heaven, What a crock of s***. Anyway they managed to spend everything they had saved for 30 years so they could retire on gambling. The family would have these big get togethers in Beluxy and Vegas were they would all meet up and spend 3 to 5 days doing nothing but gambling. Well now my sister has to support my mother and my youngest brother got so in to gambling and the bookys that he ended up commiting suicide when he was in to the bookys for $100.000.00 and all his credit cards were maxed out. You can tell i do not care for GAMBLING!! I wo'nt comment on this subject any more and i hope that the Government has the common sence to keep GAMBLING out of all of Abaco, not only because of the crime factor but the detrimental effects it has on the people that get hooked on such a useless past time respectfully Papanasty :(

[trubahamian]

I can honestly say that i have never stuck a quarter in slot machine! EVER! Now as far as the rest of my family, thats another story, Although my father died 6 years ago,God rest his soul. He and my mother, who will be 80 in May of this year retired very comfortably in Sun City Arizona, My Dad called it the waitng room to heaven, What a crock of s***. Anyway they managed to spend everything they had saved for 30 years so they could retire on gambling. The family would have these big get togethers in Beluxy and Vegas were they would all meet up and spend 3 to 5 days doing nothing but gambling. Well now my sister has to support my mother and my youngest brother got so in to gambling and the bookys that he ended up commiting suicide when he was in to the bookys for $100.000.00 and all his credit cards were maxed out. You can tell i do not care for GAMBLING!! I wo'nt comment on this subject any more and i hope that the Government has the common sence to keep GAMBLING out of all of Abaco, not only because of the crime factor but the detrimental effects it has on the people that get hooked on such a useless past time respectfully Papanasty :(

I totally agree,gambling is far too destructive an instrument to be casually passed off as "recreation"! In a country already far too populated with single parent households,it will be a disaster if Bahamians are allowed to gamble in Casinos.One just has to look at the numbers rackets in Nassau and see how destructive it is to families there.

[SamFamAustin]

It is far worse than being addicted to computers, my friends, and much more destructive. I never spun a quarter or chip in my life. But one just one trip through Las Vegas airport we were waiting for a late plane and my 14 YO son drops a quarter in the machine and his feet were showered in money! Lori my wife drops one quarter one time and has another bigger pile. I mean they pegged those machines and emptied 'em and security comes over while they're scooping the booty up. Well the boy's earnings were toast (under age of 16) but Lori was trying to offload pounds of the stuff so we could carry it on the plane. You know how heavy that stuff is? Anyway, that is the only time we gambled and it was 50 cents on a lark because we were bored as the Dickens. At least it was cool when all the lights and whistles went off, something different! Whoop-whoop-whoop!

Many people just can't stop after that but we're good. Gambling is the work of idle hands and the devil. /sammie

[Long Look]

come on... cant they put some slots in the airport??? not like they have any room:D