Trolling diving plugs for grouper

[DrRalph]

GCpBRff-36o

[Patti Puzo]

Oh man! My mouth is watering! I love the videos Doc! Feel like I'm right there with you..
Bunny, YOU ROCK!:D

[CarolP]

We used the Stretch 30's around Walker's and off Strangers Cay with great results. We too used a short leader of braided cable. We found the red & white lures attracted far too many barracudas and we had the best grouper results with the dolphin colored lures. We have a house in the Big Bend area of the Gulf of Mexico and troll all the time for grouper with the stretch 30's. we even have a stainless steel rod that goes in a holder on the gunnel - when we get a keeper grouper we slide him on the rod - rod goes up the gills and out his mouth - to remover the hooks. those trebel hooks on a flopping fish can be very dangerous. The rod immobilizes the fish and lets you use both hands for hook removal since with 2 trebel hooks you generally have at least 5 imbedded somewhere in the fish!

[SamFamAustin]

I found a way around that. You need a "fisherman's pliers" that can help get those round eyes off the lure and treble hook. Then I go back with a single hook such as the classical "J" or circle. The only problem is the front hook must not lie against the side of the lure, which takes a little thinking. Not a bad idea to change kooks every couple years if you have a lucky one. I really don't like treble hooks and they kill a lot of fish I want to release ... or they try to attack me! :eek:

[DrRalph]

We've had good luck with a large, heavy duty dehooker (http://allwatersfishing.com/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=11536); you don't get many smaller fish hitting these large lures, that hasn't been a problem.

[bahamajb]

Great video Doc, Thanks for sharing....jb

[SamFamAustin]

Thanks Doc, good idea about the de-hooker. We use one that is just a thick wire on a wood handle, and the end has a curly-Q so you can push the hook out - the commercial guys use these a bunch.

If you've ever fish deep for snapper and grouper - very different from trolling - sometimes you'll see fish with its stomach hanging out its mouth. Don't pop that with a poker. Instead, a venting tool is used to pop the air bladder, which is and inch or so behind the pectoral fin. A veterinarian's syringe works the best for this, with the plunger taken out. This is a legal requirement in US waters for red snapper and other reef fish, usually deeper than 80 feet or so. Some marine conservation groups give them away for free.

So if you catch an out-of-season Nassau Grouper in the Abacos, now you can de-hook it and vent it if necessary. The other thang that helps was that lip-grabber you saw in the video. These usually come with a built-in fish scale to weigh the fish. It also keeps you from putting your hands on the fish, since human hands are full of harmful bacteria that can really make a fish sick. If you've ever had an aquarium before, you'll know this skin disease as "ick." So hold the fish for the camera and let the Nassau or shorts go back over, to be caught another day. -sammie

ps.s, another US regulation is that if you use bait for reef fishing, you have to use circle hooks. It is OK to use any kind of hook for artificial lures, though.

[gettin-there]

do be careful in pulling diving plugs. I'm sure some of you more seasoned fishermen know this, but I found out the hard way.

This past summer out in front of GTC, we decided to pullem' in and head elsewhere. Well, winding in a Manns stretch while the boat is doing 6 knots is no easy task. but the real surpise comes when the lure is about 5 ft from the surface and all that tension converts into a catapult. A pair of huge trebles flying at your face at immense speed can do some damage. thankfully the back of my hand was a willing sacrifice- just in time.

I now know: never wind in a diving plug while the boat is under power.

[SamFamAustin]

Sounds like something I would do ... gosh I hope you and the crew were OK!

[Sapelo Son]

Great stuff Doc!

[Rock Steady]

Thanks much, Doc...

c

[RTime]

do be careful in pulling diving plugs. I'm sure some of you more seasoned fishermen know this, but I found out the hard way.

I now know: never wind in a diving plug while the boat is under power.

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you did first...:D!! I did the same thing down in the Keys. My husband rigged up one of the shimanos and we were trolling off of Fiesta Key and I reeled it in while under way and that thing came flying at me and landed in my thigh.....thankfully I yelled at him to slowdown so the whole treble part didn't inbed!! That would have ruined my whole weekend:eek:!!

Dr. Ralph I really enjoyed that video. I asked Steve if I could throw the lure overboard after the last incident....but now I am ready to try again. So Steve thanks you for the video too!!;)

And a dumb question....do you use a regular video camera to produce these little films?? How do you get them on You Tube?

[Rock Steady]

Has anyone considered replacing the trebles with single hooks...say 6/0 or so?

rs

[Rock Steady]

Treble hooks work, don't get me wrong. But it's so much easier to keep your eye on two hooks rather than six. I try and not keep trebles in my boat and convert those lures with them to singles with a barrel swivel above and attached to the lure. It takes two minutes and is much more friendly. Think 4/0...5/0...or 6/0 dependent on lure size...


c

[DrRalph]

Dr. Ralph I really enjoyed that video. I asked Steve if I could throw the lure overboard after the last incident....but now I am ready to try again. So Steve thanks you for the video too!!;)

And a dumb question....do you use a regular video camera to produce these little films?? How do you get them on You Tube?

If you'll take a few minutes to work through the New Features (http://www.abacoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3149)thread, most of the info you are asking about is covered.

We always put the boat in neutral when we pull up big plugs, for the reasons you folks have mentioned. We also use a long nylon leader, 8-10', so you are pulling that up by hand, and you have more control than if you were just cranking it in. The 3-4 minutes of fishing you see in that video is edited down from about 900 hours and a whole bunch of screwups, so it is by no means that quick and easy.

Probably the worst thing that happens as you drag over coral is a plug fouling on a head. If you're lucky, you can bring the boat back around to the other side and free it by gently lifting up on the rod. But twice I've had to free dive down to 15-20' to free an expensive plug, and I gotta tell you, I'm getting way to old to do that.:o

[SamFamAustin]

Treble hooks work, don't get me wrong. But it's so much easier to keep your eye on two hooks rather than six. I try and not keep trebles in my boat and convert those lures with them to singles with a barrel swivel above and attached to the lure. It takes two minutes and is much more friendly. Think 4/0...5/0...or 6/0 dependent on lure size...


c

Question - I usually get my hits on the rear hook unless I'm using a butterfly jig, so why even have a front hook on a diver like a Mann Stretch 30? Rig it so the open part of a single (not treble) hook was facing up, so you might catch less coral heads? Not sure about groupers in the Abacos, but most of the fish I catch seem to short-hit the tail. -sammie

[DrRalph]

It's surprising how many larger fish wind up on the forward hook, often fouled. It's like they swipe at the plug from the side, and catch one of the trebles on their face. The mutton we brought up was like that, that's one reason we stay with treble hooks.

No argument, they are awful to handle, more likely to foul, more likely to wind up in a person, easier to step on, you name it.

[SamFamAustin]

You're right ... most all divers and poppers use treble hooks although many jigs use regular hooks. Here is an interesting concept tho'. The "assist hook" method is becoming quite popular these days, and not too hard to rig. Too weird?

-sam

[Rock Steady]

Question - I usually get my hits on the rear hook unless I'm using a butterfly jig, so why even have a front hook on a diver like a Mann Stretch 30? Rig it so the open part of a single (not treble) hook was facing up, so you might catch less coral heads? Not sure about groupers in the Abacos, but most of the fish I catch seem to short-hit the tail. -sammie


Sam,

I think it's all about balance and weight....but a bit of lead up front would cure that...there used to be malleable lead that one could purchase..

[Rock Steady]

ever...

Thanks to you and Bunny...'cept there's no groupa in Akron...or muttons either!

c

[abacofever]

my .05c- Slower is better 3-4 kts. When the fish hits leave the boat in gear, for about 100 feet, then slow angle off to either side. My experience is you need to drag them away from their home area several feet or they make a bee line for their home hole or rock. It just seems if you drag them they give up much easier. Now we use 80-100lb spider wire, 3x hooks and Mann's 40+ plug. Also with the Manns plug the lip is so large that when diving the lip hit the bottom first and almost never gets hung up, just watch the rod tip. caught several 35-53 pounds. Best Fishes.

[SamFamAustin]

ever...

Thanks to you and Bunny...'cept there's no groupa in Akron...or muttons either!

c

I second that motion ... the information ... the new videos ... wow what a place to come and play! I've ordered a Shimano TLD 25, Doc, just because you and my brother say it can handle most of what I want except for giant tuna and "blue suit" marlin. I really appreciate youse guys, y'all.
-sammie

[Rock Steady]

...this gets it.

Thanks Doc, Sammie and all y'all...

Crispin

[DrRalph]

Fever is correct, and I am remiss for not mentioning that the first thing you do when you get a hit is to turn away from the coral, if you can remember to do it:rolleyes:. Also agree with 4 kts max; sometimes we ran on only 1 motor if we had a stiff following sea.

A nice way to do this in Abaco's prevailing SE wind is to run out SMOW channel, then troll WNW along MOW, Fowl (stay out of the park), and Guana. If you want to keep going, the reefs off No Name and GTC are great, but you may have a long ride home. We like peeling off at Guana's NW tip, working inside, then hitting Nippers before returning to port on Elbow.

[big ed]

Doc,

You need your own show! Fishing the Abacos!!!!!!!

By the way every great fishing show need the chef that prepares that episodes catch in the last four minute segment. Count me in!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bella Vista will vouch for my skills.

Big Ed

[DrRalph]

LOL, you'll have to fight Bunny for the tools. I've seen her fight, my money's on her.;)

[big ed]

If she fights anything like Lisa...............no contest!

[fish bum]

Great job DR Ralph/Bunny! We always spend way too much time drifting with jigs and slinging weight when we could just be sippin a coldy and pulling plugs between Cracker's and Nippers, waiting for the bite...
JCT

[dogfish]

I second the recommendation for trolling plugs around 4 knots for a couple of reasons. The first is that I use a rubber band to pin my line close to the water either on a rail or on the pole. If we are trolling faster than 4 knots the pressure on the line pops the rubber band too easily. Second, I have a couple of Mann's plugs but also have a large variety of other deep diving plugs which are not as well made (and less expensive) as the Mann's plugs. I find anything over 4 knots can cause them to race accross the spread tangling all of the lines. I Sometimes run a clark spoon in my inshore spread which is one of the best and not twisting your line but at higher speeds you can still end up with twisted line.

As far as removing hooks, well I am on vacation while I am in the Abacos so it my grouper or muttin needs to chill out in the cooler for 10 or 15 minutes before I remove the hook than so be it, I'll troll with one less line for that time.

-Doug

[SamFamAustin]

Never thought about a simple rubber band ... but I have used Aftco flat line clips, which are way fun. Of course, rubber bands don't cost twenty dollars a pop, so hey, sounds like fun.

Not sure if this happens much, but on a fast tide current of over 2 knots you can throw out the anchor and "troll" in one place. Not sure if the tide rips that fast in Tilloo or MOW channels on a fresh incoming ... does it sometimes?

[Rock Steady]

Yep.

[SamFamAustin]

Yep.

Sounds like RS is really Yoda or something! Perhaps a secret "honey-hole" fishing method, oh honorable forum fishing consultant? :D

I've been looking at some diver planers lately, which tend to run about 45 degrees, a little steeper than a Mann diver. But this does allow one to run spoons, ballyhoo, jigs, and other non-diving lures on a leader behind the planer. For high speeds over 4 knots, the planer is on a heavy reel or downrigger and then a clip of rubber band is attached to the main line with the lure attached. This allows one to fight the fish without all that resistance in the water, rather nice.

From the If I Eat It Can I Catch It? Department: I was wondering if Big Ed has any fish recipes that use brandy or rum in them! You know, a clear brandy saute you can catch on fire, or a brandy-cream sauce. Sounds mah-velous. -sammie

[DrRalph]

Many years ago I went to a seminar that a local tackle shop sponsored, all about downriggers. They had a tackle guy, an IGFA guy, some incredible video, and a salesman. After they chummed us for two hours we all lined up and literally spent $thousands on Canon downriggers, balls, wings, clips, the works.

What the guys failed to tell us was that you have to babysit these things almost minute-to-minute. The cable is a magnet for weeds and anything else in the water, the line frequently trips or fouls and you have to stop the boat to bring it up and reset it (if you are using the "ultra wing,") fish that hit your topwater lines seem to go straight for the cable which does a wonderful job of cutting the line, and it seems to attract cudas, bonito, and other trash fish.

My friend Charlie bought two of them and had the same experience. That summer he trailed his boat down to the Keys, and was trolling along a reef when one of the downrigger balls fouled on a head, and literally pulled the mount out of the gunnel, the entire rig going overboard. Charlie thought about it for a moment, disconnected the other one, and threw it overboard as well. Said it was the best decision he had ever made: "I had forgotten how much I enjoyed fishing."

There are certainly people who rave about downriggers and planers, but in my experience, dragging more than two plugs gets to be too much of a hassle.:(

[SusieAndAl]

Hi Everyone,

The depth and breadth of fishing knowledge displayed here is nothing short of fantastic!

We however have started to learn and deeply appreciate a much simpler life on the Island. One aspect of a simpler life is the method of fishing. We still have all our toys and enjoy using them, but to be honest, we think using an old nut for a sinker, finding your bait like snails, crabs or a bit of conch, and then handlining from shore or from a little runabout simply can't be beat!

(Crispin, that does NOT mean we won't take you up on your invitation!):)

Cheers -- SusieAndAl

[SamFamAustin]

My dad taught me how to hand-line for flounder in Connecticut when I was about 6 or 7 years old. Hard to find those old tarred-twine rigs with the brass spreader bar, a weight, and two hooks on short mono leaders, nasty sandworms for bait. This is circa 1963 or so. It is definitely sporty!

Want to read something really strange? They fish for giant tuna with hand-lines! :eek: In Hawaii the locals often troll with two hand-lines instead of flat-lines connected to fishing poles. It apparently is the best way, hand-lining, at least there and in the Philippines:
http://www.pia.gov.ph/?m=12&fi=p080306.htm&no=33

Whoa ... so see, you folks are mas mucho macho. ;)

[DaGoose]

Jeez, I missed this somehow.

GREAT JOB Doc and Bunny!!!!

I love the audio whenever you got hooked up.....that's what it's all about right there..............then the big ole grin when they hit the deck, then the big ole grin when you look at em in the icechest and maybe pick a few up and admire the beauty (and maybe poke at a few eyeballs too :D).

For big flatties, we use a long handled set of pliers to get the hooks out. They work great to keep your fingers away from the hooks and snapping toothy jaws. The little basebat bat does wonders to slow them down a bit too.

Can't wait to try the Drunken Dorado trick.....fill a spray bottle with part cheap rum (or any other hard stuff) and part water. Spray the eyes and gills when they come over the rail, and supposedly it stuns them for several minutes so you can deal with them. Anybody ever try this? Sounds like a great video too....if there's any left before the first bite :o

Rick

[DrRalph]

I agree with everything you said except when you bring the dorado in the boat, you spray the rum in YOUR mouth:D.

Seriously, we have a friend who swears by throwing a large towel over the fish's head once you get him in. The problem is getting the fish to hold still while you place the towel on him.:rolleyes:

[SamFamAustin]

I thought the fisherman had to put a wet towel over his or her head, and then whack the poor fishie with a very small billy club. Extra points are achieved by smoking a Cuban, taking a big swig of Anejo, sitting on the fish, or ... well let's leave our clothes on for now. I thought you old salts of the sea knew all this King Neptune stuff? :D

[DaGoose]

BUNNY, you REALLY know how to bring a fish in. Nice rocking chair motion! And, as Rick noted to me, you didn't make any 'girl sounds'! Unfortunately, I'm known for that:o

Good job, girlfriend!

Tina

[SamFamAustin]

Hey Teener-Neener, when was the last time you checked your husband for "girlie sounds" when he was catching a fish? :eek:

Just joking, but I remember one day we had fished for over 8 hours and were about headed back to port when a pole went off, really clicking loud. So the captain told me to grab the rod and I said "hey you, fight that fish" and one thing lead to another and a giant tuna jumped off the line, all in slo-mo like in 4 or 5 seconds.

Girlie sound city!

Some of 'em were mine too. I had fought three fish in the 50 pound class with no chair or harness and was exhausted, dehydrated, and rather drunk. Wah! Mr. Peanut Dolphin Man, as I now called him, made little sounds like "yeek."

Happens to the best of us, darlin'!
sammie

[DrRalph]

BUNNY, you REALLY know how to bring a fish in. Nice rocking chair motion! And, as Rick noted to me, you didn't make any 'girl sounds'! Unfortunately, I'm known for that:o

Good job, girlfriend!

Tina

Hmm, the only "girl sounds" she makes is when she hollers at me, "Don't eff up the gaff and lose my fish!":eek:

[bobkalm]

Thanks for taking the time to make a great video to share. We're looking forward to doing some grouper-snatching this spring!!
Bob
The Grumpy Old Fisherman