Should Beach Bonfires Be Banned?

[SamFamAustin]

The subject of banning beach bonfires is - excuse the pun - a "hot issue" because a council of governments in Puget Sound near Seattle want to ban them all. They talk a little about pollution but mostly about global warming, and please let's NOT get into that debate.

But after snooping around two or three dozen websites, most authorities conclude that having small, contained beach bonfires while using proper wood is completely OK.

I can anticipate that folks in the Abacos don't like beach bonfires, mainly because they don't want any within a mile of their property but also because of some unclaimed "evidence" that the ash causes the coral reefs to die. I found this rather curious because the potash and nutrients from beach bonfires are minute in comparison to (a) the millions of gallons of wastewater generated locally and (b) the immense amount of over-land flow what results from rain and flooding. Plus, (c) if you know what you're doing with a bonfire, such as using a burn-barrel, you can minimize any potash and smoke to very trace amounts.

Contrast that to shooting off fireworks. Fireworks are mostly paper and black powder, and the black powder contains high concentrates of nitrates (a proven cause of reef decline) and toxic trace metals used for the colors. OK, let's ban the fireworks too? Most people would not ...

Dog poo. Now I'm not going to get gross here but if a dog eats a bag of chow it's going to "process" that for you, right? One of the causes of eutrophication of Chesapeake Bay in the US is thought to be dog waste washing into the waters, which increases nutrient loads and fecal coliform. So let's ban all dogs including the Potcakes!

I guess you know my position by now, that if done right a few controlled beach bonfires are probably OK. The debate up in the Seattle area is rather intense, to say the least. It's funny because people on each side of the debate tend to view their opposition as uneducated slobs. Personally, I think beach bonfires can be rather fun, and we always try to leave the beach cleaner than when we found it.
-sammie

[sea glass]

Bonfires may be fun but the dangers far outweigh the "fun" when they occur in the Abacos. We do not have a fire department! Period.

I have posted in my house "no bonfires" and yet they (renters) have still had them (I have seen the pictures). I felt it was a total disregard for my house, my island and my friends that live there. The last few years have been so dry....
I'm afraid my little fire extinguisher in my kitchen wouldn't help much!

[Patty&Rudi]

Sammie -

We attended a bonfire on the beach, seriously maintained by responsible adult humans (who live right there, too) - with magnificent lobster tails, corn on the cob and amazing potatoes, Smores, great company, a perfect evening.

[BahamaAngie]

I agree that as much as they may be nice, they can create problems. If it were my own property, I would NOT want bonfires there causing my property to get black looking. I would be livid!

[SamFamAustin]

Aye, I appreciate the concerns about wildfires, which do happen in the Abacos, and the concern about local homeowners. But to be "responsible," one would minimize either evil, at least in my mind.

The problem is, as I'm sure you can relate, not everyone is a responsible person. I'll give you that much ... I've seen bonfires of over 2 tons of wood fueled by 3 to 5 gallons of starter gasoline, almost explosive. Not very wise in my opinion.

The picture that Patty & Rudi posted showed exactly what I meant. It is a shame how folks can ruin such a great thing.

And a wonderful thing it is. How many people have been with a guy named Lincoln to play with fish and cook a few ... over his open wood fire? I think he grills them English style although I definitely need some additional field testing here!

There's no good or bad opinions here so post 'em up if you have some thoughts. :cool:

[JJ]

I think if they are done above the tide line (where ash is not immediately washed out with the next tide) and with careful attendance, they shouldn't be a problem.

We did a beach bonfire last time we visited GTC and posted pics and I am wondering if it was at your house, sea glass. We did do it down the beach from the house where there was a beach access and where locals also did a bonfire. We are very responsible and careful, but I can see that might not be the case with the next person.

[H2Os]

I love a good outside fire as much, if not more, than most, but you have to be responsible. In the summer up in VT we often have fires, sometimes for fun and sometimes to burn debris but if it's been really dry for a while, the winds are headed toward the tinder etc..., an open fire is simply a bad idea. But a crackling fire under a stary sky is an ancient and wonderful thing.

[Shelby]

Depends where you're planning to build the fire. I love a bonfire on the beach as much as anyone, but, at least in Abaco, I'm opposed. Not because I believe that the occasional bonfire contributes a whole lot to global warming, but because, at least in Abaco, there simply aren't adequate firefighting resources. Some of the cays have no formal firefighting capability at all.

I've seen first-hand how much damage can be done on Abaco by out-of-control fires. While my sense is that most people on the Forum have the sense it takes to have a safe bonfire, it only takes one irresponsible idiot to cause thousands of dollars in damage or worse, jeopardize lives. And unfortunately, there's just no way to legislate personal responsibility or common sense.

Furthermore, regardless of how responsible the fire-builder is, the reality is that there's just no way to control where sparks and embers end up -- and they can travel a lot farther than most people think.

Given these factors, I think that, at least in Abaco, the risks of bonfires far outweigh the benefits. In places like the Pacific Northwest, which tends to be pretty water-logged most of the year and which has adequate firefighting resources, I think bonfires are perfectly fine.

There's my two cents. :-)

Amanda

[SamFamAustin]

I tend to agree with the argument that the Abacos is prone to droughts and wildfires at times, and often these fires can be quite large and devastating to the forests. Perhaps it simply isn't the best idea for those islands ...

I forgot to mention that I build fires on a very wide sandy coastal barrier beach (the island is only 1/2 miles wide at best) and little grows in the dunes except some sparse dune grass ... maybe more like Okracoke on the East Coast, but very little vegetation.

As to cleaning the beach, believe it or not some hurricane trash from Ike is still coming in on the currents, such as televisions and microwaves, all encrusted with goose barnacles. We haul such trash and all the plastic & glass up the the park road for the maintenance crews. We burn whatever wood we find and I like to bring some good, dry oak if we want to BBQ. Y'all are always welcome to one of our "pachangas." :)

[Charlotte Couple]

I've always enjoyed a good campfire, and we have a small outdoor fire pit on our patio at home. However, at the Outer Banks, where they are very popular with vacationers, I know that our neighbor with the beachfront house had real problems from them. He likes to have the windows and doors open, with no AC on during the evenings, and the smoke and sparks from the bonfires on the beach blew directly into his home.

Also, many of the late-night bonfires are attended largely by teens who like to drink beer there with their buddies. Because they are underaged (or maybe they're just lazy), they don't want to bring back the evidence to dispose of it properly, so on our morning beach walks we usually come back with a garbage bag full of beer cans that were littering the beach. Those juvies also tend to fuel their fires with lumber they "acquire" from cottages, construction sites, and sand fences meant to hold the dunes intact.

Just last weekend I walked down the beach in the early afternoon, to see what was smoking. Someone had left their bonfire to burn out the night before, but had left a couple long boards in the pit. The wind had fanned the embers, and the boards were on fire. Not a good thing in a 25 mph wind, with dry brush just over the dunes.

[badfish]

Bonfires are a really great way to enjoy the beach at night with friends. If the winds are favorable , and the fire is tended and put out properly it poses no real threat. Beach fires are some of my best memories- we never burnt anything more than a few marshmellows and hot dogs. At the same time common sense is a must.

[gwmeadows]

On the Outer Banks, beach bonfires are not permitted at all from Kill Devil Hills - north to Corolla. The only place they are legal at any time is in Nags Head and further south in the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

In Nags Head, you have to get a permit from the fire department the day of - and follow the guidelines - including max diameter, minimum depth in the sand, supervision by an adult and the extinguishing of the fire before leaving it.

Any fires that do not fall within those parameters should be reported.

I've been a part of many a bonfire in Nags Head and I was usually the one who took responsibility for it - including extinguishing it. It's a magical, wonderful experience and does not have to be a problem for the community.

We (as Americans) have a habit of making rules/laws that affect everyone just because a few folks don't follow the rules - rather the answer would be to follow the guidelines and/or report those who don't.

Regarding bonfires in the Abacos - I'd rather see some education rather than a ban. If we're just looking for something that COULD go wrong - rather than a real problem that exists - then that's one thing. Let's not export the tendency to govern every possible action to the Abacos. How about a flier that outlines when and how to build and extinguish a responsible bonfire? All this information exists already online. Post and/or leave this flier at each concerned rental property. It will go a long way toward fixing concerns. It's obvious that just saying 'no beach bonfires' for a particular cottage didn't work. Try educating. It goes a long ways.

[Shelby]

We (as Americans) have a habit of making rules/laws that affect everyone just because a few folks don't follow the rules - rather the answer would be to follow the guidelines and/or report those who don't.

Regarding bonfires in the Abacos - I'd rather see some education rather than a ban. If we're just looking for something that COULD go wrong - rather than a real problem that exists - then that's one thing. Let's not export the tendency to govern every possible action to the Abacos.

To be clear, I'm not "exporting ideas to the Bahamas". I am a Bahamian. My family owns property throughout Abaco. I am opposed to tourist bonfires.

I'm not looking for something that COULD happen -- it's a fact that Abaco has been experiencing a drought for the past few years, and most of the cays have no formal firefighting resources. Fire is not some hypothetical issue -- it's a real problem. Have you ever been on one of the cays when fire breaks out? It's terrifying. One spark can jeopardize an entire settlement.

All these examples of areas in the States where fires are permitted are well and good. But you have the resources for enforcement, and all the modern firefighting resources and equipment should a problem occur. Not so in Abaco.

No offense to the members of this Forum and I DO NOT include you all in what I'm about to say, as I know most Forum members love and respect Abaco as much as any Bahamian, and I have no doubt you would be very responsible bonfire makers... but I have to tell you that over the past 40 years, I've seen tourists do a lot of inexplicably stupid things.

Maybe their actions were the result of too many rum punches, or perhaps the people in question didn't respect Abaco they way they might respect their own neighbourhoods, or maybe they were just individual dumba**es. But pamphlets or no pamphlets, I wouldn't want these people setting fires in Abaco!

I agree completely that bonfires under the right conditions can be beautiful and magical. I lived in rain-soaked Vancouver for a number of years, and enjoyed many a bonfire. But given the conditions and risks associated with fire on Abaco, I can't imagine why anyone who loves and respects the place would want to put Abaconians and their homes and livelihoods at risk for a little vacation fun.

Amanda

[Gumelimi]

On GTC there is a dump that is burned once a week. Its the only way to deal with the trash unless a plan is hatched to barge all the garbage off.

[AbacoPeach]

As always, Amanda, very well said!!

[Shelby]

On GTC there is a dump that is burned once a week. Its the only way to deal with the trash unless a plan is hatched to barge all the garbage off.

You're right. But the folks in GTC have the right to decide whether or not they're prepared to take that risk. And the people who manage the dump fires have a huge incentive to ensure it's properly managed - it's their own homes and livelihoods at stake.

Given that there is already risk inherent in "necessary" fires such as the GTC dump, I can't understand why anyone would want to compound that risk simply for their own amusement.

Amanda

P.S. Thanks, AbacoPeach. :-)

[SamFamAustin]

Well said, Amanda, and it's nice to see folks respect all kinds of opinions.

As to the dump, I recall getting a phone call from my dad after one really bad year for hurricanes in the Bahamas. Was it 2003 or 2004 with the really bad "F" hurricane? He had gotten into the poisonwood and was real bit by the swarming ants. He still cusses his poisonwood, "Dad's tree." :eek:

You couldn't do much with poisonwood, burn it or haul it offshore, but all the other trash and plant matter was burned in immense trash fires on every cay. The fires went for several weeks, he said. You could certainly tell when the wind changed direction, that's for sure. Gosh the locals were good at that, and helped each other out - my dad still thanks the locals for helping him on MOW/Dickie's Cay during that horrible time. His pile of brush disappeared without even having to ask for help. There are some trees you just can't burn or you'll kill people, but everything else was burned at the dumps.

It's a big problem on the East Coast now, with people making huge bonfires and leaving them to burn out, just throw some sand over the top. People walk over the beach the next day and those coals under the beach sand are like 1100 degrees! A burn to the bottom of your foot really hurts and takes about 90 days just to grow skin - you really can't walk very well. Much as they try to educate folks, issue permits, and hand out violations, the problem continues. Don't you hate it when people don't have any common sense? Some of us are responsible and follow all the rules and procedures, with a shovel, 5-gallon buckets, and so forth.

Not to hijack the thread, but the other problem I see sometimes are people who insist on making really deep holes in the beach. One little kid fell in such a hole one year on Block Island ... the sides collapsed and the kid was buried and suffocated to death. The folks who dug the hole vanished, of course, but they were obviously trying to make a "dribble castle." I tell ya, some people just don't have a lick of sense.

Within town limits our beach crews have to clean the beach and fill in the holes every morning. No open fires are allowed although enclosed BBQs are OK. Fireworks, pooping dogs, and glass bottles were banned. Littering is also a Class C misdemeanor, max $500 but usually set at $200. Why do we need these rules, ordinances, and beach cleaning procedures?

We now, we know. :rolleyes:

[SusieAndAl]

As always, Amanda, very well said!!

We agree. Susie and I are volunteer firefighters here in Bahama Palm Shores, and I can tell you from firsthand knowledge that fighting these fires with our limited resources is a tough, hard and dangerous business. Last year here on the main island it was bad all the way from Spring City to Crossing Rocks. One day I had to go out three times, and that wasn't anywhere near what our neighbors in Casuarina had to do.

After we finally got things under control, a moron (sorry, but when it's so dry and you just barely managed to keep homes from burning up no other publicly acceptable word comes to mind) started a bonfire and almost took out a lot of homes. He was a local, and a responsible person. The problem was the smoldering embers way underneath the main pile of wood.

So, while it's a wonderful thing, we implore people to PLEASE refrain! No matter how careful you are, stuff happens and it ain't worth it.

Cheers -- Al

[badfish]

I thought this thread was about bonfires in general, not specifically bonfires set by tourists on vacation. Both locals and tourists have been known to have beach fires.:confused:

[Gumelimi]

I dont think the unattended GTC dump fires have caused a fire elsewhere but I suppose they could. The biggest problem I see is the toxins from the burn ending up in everyones cistern in the form of ash. Nothing is exempt from being burned in the pit. I cant imagine the compounds coming out of the smoke and ash from batteries, oil, plastics etc....

[BahamaAngie]

Sammie, as I child I experienced walking through someone's bar-b-que coals that they had dumped. I was bedridden for about a month and it hurt!!!!

[Shelby]

I dont think the unattended GTC dump fires have caused a fire elsewhere but I suppose they could. The biggest problem I see is the toxins from the burn ending up in everyones cistern in the form of ash. Nothing is exempt from being burned in the pit. I cant imagine the compounds coming out of the smoke and ash from batteries, oil, plastics etc....

These toxins end up not only in peoples' cisterns, but their lungs as well. My comments were meant to address the fire dangers only... environmental dangers are a whole other ballgame!!

And badfish, I don't mean to separate out tourists vs. locals when it comes to bonfires... A beach fire set by a local can absolutely do as much damage as one set by a foreigner. :-(

A.

[TropicalDon]

The real issue is that the rules have to be set up for the 1% of the people that either don't care or just don't have the knowledge to properly care for a fire. Where 1% doesn't seem like much, when you add up all the people that are there, the chances of a serious mistake is pretty high.

[Long Look]

I dont know what I would do on dickies without a burn pile to get rid of all the "landscape" if you can even call it that waste. We are very conscious of wind direction. Burn piles are best in the winter on days with a constant breeze blowing the embers and smoke out.

[HTVFR]

As with all things, circumstances and the prevailing weather conditions dictate whether a beach burn is safe.

At the moment, given the fact that we are close to the end of the dry season, beach fires on Elbow Cay, Lubbers and Tilloo are banned, PERIOD.

Garbage and garden debris may currently be burned in areas that have no reasonable method of getting material to a local dump. In these cases any burn piles must be small, fully attended and water must be available to extinguish or control the fire. Those burning in such circumstances, should notify their local Fire Department in advance, and be considerate of wind direction and their neighbours.

[Henz]

they keep the bugs at bay for us and provide a nice heat at night. it all boils down to who is gonna have them. there are alot of STUPID people out there.

[SamFamAustin]

As with all things, circumstances and the prevailing weather conditions dictate whether a beach burn is safe.

At the moment, given the fact that we are close to the end of the dry season, beach fires on Elbow Cay, Lubbers and Tilloo are banned, PERIOD.

Garbage and garden debris may currently be burned in areas that have no reasonable method of getting material to a local dump. In these cases any burn piles must be small, fully attended and water must be available to extinguish or control the fire. Those burning in such circumstances, should notify their local Fire Department in advance, and be considerate of wind direction and their neighbours.

That's called a "burn ban" and should be respected by all tourists and locals. I hope the word gets out because sometimes it does not. Currently our area of Texas has a burn ban due to "exceptional" drought, the most severe. Please help get the word out as this is very serious stuff. I don't know if that applies to fireworks but it does here!

It is well worth repeating the message.

[Abacobrad]

We've heard from a number of people that the remaining ash and charcoal is detrimental to the reefs and causes deterioration as well. We try to discourage it, but always find remains on the beach. I try to rake it way above the tide line and bury the evidence with sand to discourage the practice.

[Sapelo Son]

Here in Georgia you aint' much if you don't have a fire goin' but, even this ole "red neck" has started burnin' in a fire pot.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll239/timharris2008/FirePot.jpg

[Abacobrad]

Tim,

You can tote that to Bita Bay this summer! I'd hide it in the garage though to still discourage fires on the beach- except for us GA firebugs. I will admit to a moment of nerves a time or two when an onshore breeze whips around and suddenly sends a few embers flying, but then again we've had a burn pile or two that could be seen from space after Floyd. ;)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll239/timharris2008/FirePot.jpg[/quote]

[SamFamAustin]

The burn barrel idea is pretty good - if we ever get a few inches of rain and good moisture. No ashes left on the beach, a plus.

I don't know what would be similar to this in the Abacos, but here in Texas we have "mesquite" which is a very hard wood renowned for its use in BBQ smoking. Southerners tend to like pecan and hickory - us Texans like mesquite. It makes a wonder campfire and the steaks and sausages taste great. We even mastered the art of boiling water for pasta or coffee (harder than you think), and slow-cooking beans (look Mom no burnt ones on the bottom), by putting a metal cooking grid on top of the coals. One old boy even did fried rice one time, yum. Ignore a tiny bit of sand and it's pure heaven.

As to ashes and wildfires, well, we always burn miles away from anyone where there simply isn't any vegetation. Wind has to be below 12 MPH. I know, I'm a bad influence on "the boys." Oooh, time to break out the banjos, guitars, and ukuleles for some half-dirty songs! :eek:
-sammie

[oudi14]

The Bahamian answer to Mesquite, Hickory, etc, is Buttonwood. It is a coastal tree, so there is often a good quantity to be had for a beach fire. It produces a very good bed of coals, so it is what people seek, when cooking steaks over a grill on the beach.

[HTVFR]

Conditions remain very dry with no significant rainfall for months.

All burning is still restricted and all "recreational burns" remain banned until further notice.

Please DO NOT light any fires on the beaches of Elbow Cay, Lubbers or Tilloo Cay.

If you see a fire being lit, please call HTVFR on Ch.16 immediately. Most visitors are happy to extinguish the fire when the facts are explained to them. By calling, you may save somebody's home & property.

Thank You