"No Foreign Boaters" & Conch

[SamFamAustin]

Maybe DrRalph has it right, as taking a boat to the Abacos with the fuel, insurance, and all is starting to be a drag - just fly over and enjoy. Over on the other board there was a discussion about the new fishing rules effective on January 1. I copied the part about conch from the Bahamian directive:

The Government, in an effort to ensure the continued sustainability of local conch stocks, has decided to prohibit the harvesting of the species by foreign boaters.

So if you're not a foreign boater, you're in, baby! It might take a few miles of reef walking, but just don't get on a boat with any conch. /Sammie

[DrRalph]

Does anyone know: do we have a formal announcement from the Bahamian government regarding revised fishing regulations, and a date of implementation? If you have the info, please post it as well as a reference, we all need to see it.

[patw]

Dr. Ralph, I found this on another forum and the person who posted this, said it came from the Bahamas Government site. I am still trying to find it on the government site.

01/12/2007



The Department of Marine Resources wishes to advise the general public that the several amendments to the Regulations governing sportsfishing have been made and that these changes came into force on 1st January, 2007. The amendments which have been made to Regulation 48 of the Fisheries Regulations (Ch. 244 – Subsidiary Legislation of The Bahamas – 2000) have the effect of curtailing the amount of marine resources which can legally be harvested by foreign boaters visiting the Bahamas.
The general public is informed that Regulation 48 now reads:

48. (1) In sportsfishing the following rules apply-
a. A person shall fish by the traditional method of angling with a hook or lure attached to a line held in the hand or attached to a pole, rod or reel;

b. A person, unless otherwise authorized by the respective permit, shall not use a spear, a fish trap, or a net other than a landing net;

c. Each vessel shall use not more than six (6) rods or reels unless the operator is in possession of a permit authorizing the use of more rods or reels;

d. Any migratory fishery resource that is caught shall not in total consist of more than six (6) Kingfish, Dolphin, Tuna or Wahoo per vessel and any resource not intended to be used shall not be injured unnecessarily but be returned to the sea alive;

e. No vessel shall have on board any conch, turtle or more than twenty pounds of any demersal fishery resources (groupers, snappers, etc.) per vessel at any time and excluding not more than six crawfish per vessel.

(2) The limitations specified in (1)(d) and (e) shall also apply to a Bahamian vessel engaged in fishing for purposes other than commercial by persons who are not Bahamians;
3.Subject to paragraph (1) no vessel shall have on board any fish unless its head and tail is intact.

The general public is advised that the Queen Conch (conch) is considered to be an endangered species throughout much of its range within the wider Caribbean area, including The Bahamas. The Government, in an effort to ensure the continued sustainability of local conch stocks, has decided to prohibit the harvesting of the species by foreign boaters.

[patw]

Here it is!
http://www.breef.org/breef/LatestNews/tabid/83/Default.aspx

[SamFamAustin]

I hope I didn't start a major flame-out here! :confused:

Many have questioned Regulation 48 as revised and I'd like to avoid that discussion just because it's a government issue, and I do have family over there and it one of our favorite places for us kids. It is written in the Queen's English but lacks some specificity on terms such as "foreign boaters." I did not mean to criticize, other than to use my weasel-like mind, such as for "foreign non-boaters." :p


BTW got a small dose of sleet in South TX at 26.11 N today, fairly remarkable. That's almost the same latitude at Fort Lauderdale, FL.

[DrRalph]

Thanks very much, Pat. It looks like section 2) excludes non-Bahamians renting a boat from a Bahamian company, so rental boaters are not exempt from the new regs?

We're going to move this thread to the Sportsman section and stick it to the top, hopefully everyone will get the word on the new regs.

[CR]

Good day all,

Even Fisheries Officers are not sure exactly what the new regulations are, or what it all actually means.
I have e-mailed The Department of Fisheries in Nassau for better definitions of what the new regulations are, and will share with all when I learn more.

Regards,

R.

[Crooked Hook]

These new regulations will make it very difficult to travel between the Islands for any lenght of time if at all. If you leave your boat in Great Harbour, travel to and fish the pocket, then want to stay in Chub overnight, you cannot clean your fish and travel back to Great Harbour or even leave the Bahamas unless your catch is whole. These regulations will have a great impact on the small out islands and a lessor impact on places like Nassau and the larger islands.

[Big Dog 901]

All they talk about is Forigen Boaters, the natives are the worst offenders. You can go nowhere during Lobster season, that a bahamian doesn't walk down the dock wanting to sell you short lobster. After working at Walkers Cay for some 5 plus years I have never seen a native get in there boat and go offshore in surch of Tuna , Wahoo or Dolphin. I think most of us always share a good catch with the natives. Boy are they going to miss that. The out Islands are the ones that are going to be hurt by these new laws, not Nassau or Freeport where these laws are Dreamed Up. They don't want us over there, JUST OUR MONEY

[Big Dog 901]

A lot of my old friends on Grand Cay, 5 miles east of Walkers for those of you that don't know, make there living as Guides on our "foregn boats" and they are really going to be hurt by these new restrictions. Oh well they will probably get some sort of Government Subsidie from the Casino taxes. The powers to be probably cant even put a number on all the sportfishing dollars that are spent on the out islands, nor do they probably care. The talk here in Stuart is that most everyone will be cutting there trips to the Bahamas and are planning trips to the Florida Keys insted.

[CR]

I can guarantee you won’t be offered under measure Crawfish in Cherokee.

R.

[SamFamAustin]

Big dog mentioned an interesting notion, the economics of the sport fishing industry - and yes it is big industry. According to a peer-reviewed university paper (Texas A&M), a fishing tournament of 500 anglers (including all the kiddos) can bring in 1-2 million USD and another 2-3 million in "indirect" benefits for a total of about 3-5 mill. These are rough numbers from memory but that was on just one weekend!

Direct costs included fuel (several thousands of gallons, especially the offshore division), repairs, charters, ice, beer, launching fees, dockage, tournament fees, and related hard expenses.

Indirect costs were hotels, food, more beer, more repairs, travel expenses, tips, moving boats from out of town, and stuff like that. Much of the fish was donated to local food banks and not assigned any economic value, which should be there. Blown engines and divorces were not included to my knowledge.

The fact of the matter was that these folks spend a ton of money, even those without big boats over 30 feet. The total money was not "netted out" but rather how much cash changed hands as "value-added revenue." Doing this at a tournament was fairly easy because a manned table was set from registration through the final party, with survey reponses generally over 80 percent (considered very good).

Doing such a study in the Abacos would be quite a challenge, although perhaps the Ministry could benefit by such a program. The way I figure it, we'd need about two dozen survey teams with all-expenses paid travel budgets, mainly recruited from the experts on this board. /Sammie ;)

[patw]

Just read this on the Florida Fisherman forum, might be worth a try. They are calling for a boycott because of the new proposed regs.

From the Fl. Fisherman Forum:


"The rules for 2007 have not been changed. There is a proposal to change them. They insinuated that this proposal will fail but please write call or email this guy below and tell him what you normally spend and what you will do if they enact these ridiculous regulation's."

Fisheries, Department of
East Bay Street
P. O. Box N 3028
Nassau, N.P., The Bahamas (email) michaelbraynen@bahamas.gov.bs
phone 242 - 393-1777
242-393-1015
242-393-1096
Fax 242 - 393-0238

[Crooked Hook]

I really wish to understand how and or why the Bahamian Government is regulating Pelagics. I might look at things from a common sense standpoint so here we go.

PELAGICS: living, occurring, or deposited in the deep waters of the ocean or the open sea as opposed to near the shore.

Also, pelagics are migratory. They do not stay in one place. That is precisely why Dolphin, Whaoo, Kings etc are not prevalant ALL YEAR LONG. There are seasons! They travel. one report I read indicated that a Dolphin can travel up to 8,000 miles in six months. with all this being said, why does the Bahamian Government think they own these fish? Crazy??? I think not. i am for very strict regulation on Crawfish and Conch. these species do live in an area close to shore and I agree with BD 901that the natives are the worst offenders. i, along with six friends who regularly dock boats for two 2-3 month stays in the out islands will be looking for other places to go.

[abacofever]

For the same reason we (U.S.) does. The US has a 200 mile fisheries zone and pelagic fish are regulated. Over fishing in a country 1000 miles away has an effect on fishing in the Bahamas. Just look at the Atlantic Bluefin Tuna. In its hey day Bimini and Cat had some outstanding Bluefin fishing for the 6-8 week run when the fish came through. Now, worthless! Not caused by fishing there, but by those fish being caught else where before they reached the area, and in turn whatever fish were caught there never made it to Nova Scoita by the Summer. I can live with only 6 pelagics. I think it could be more, but I'll live. Yes, the bottom fishing rules are %$%$)*& stupid. Agree with a limit but should not have been by weight.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

This mish-mash of a regulation I believe is politically motivated. Elections are upon them, the people have been asking for changes which have been ignored, but now the current administration has thrown this out there for appeasement to try and hold their seats! The opposition will probably be open to re-writing this so as to be clearer and less restrictive. The twenty year reign of the first administration stifled tourism and the growth of infrastructure. The next administration ushered in a tremendous growth spurt and a boom in tourism. The present administration??? Do you like the new MHH airport? How about the new schools and clinics? Can't get the hurricane damage repaired unless the locals do it themselves! Gosh, sounds like a rant. Sorry, but this is what I've been reading between the lines for the past several years.:confused:

[SamFamAustin]

I've checked around a little but cannot find a US limit on Yellowfin Tuna or Dolphin Fish, although there might be a minimum size of the yellows (27 inches). Wahoo doesn't seem to be regulated, either, although some states do. Note that putting restrictions on such fish could cause boaters to dump fish overboard dead so a person could cull the best six fish, a practice few would recommend although they sometimes do it.

Reef fishing is severely exploited in some areas and I agree that some limits are needed but the bag limits should be based on number of fish by species and length, not poundage. Most fisherman have a measuring stick or a cooler with a guage on the lid, but do not possess a scale. That raises the question on whether the "fish cops" have to run into harbor to find a certified scale to weigh a catch ... that was not very well thought out.

Those little fish grabbers with a weight scale on them are pretty good, although are not always accurate. Remember when those police radar guns first came out, and lawyers were documenting that the device measured a large tree going over 25 MPH? :eek: /Sammie

[coconutscottage]

:confused: I must be stupid. These Regs are in no way clear. What if I am a foreigner, but own a boat in the Bahamas? I guess I am still a foreign boater, but why not simply say "foreigner" or "non-Bahamian?"
What if I, as a foreigner, go snorkling from land and get some Conch? Seems like that is okay.
Should we hire a Bahamian lawyer to give us an opinion on all the ambiguities:)

[yellowpages]

As announced on the NET this morning.

YES...you can use a spear as a tourist IF you get a permit. As far as has been said the only place you get obtain such permit is in Marsh Harbour but maybe other locations will surface. If you are a cruiser and have paid for your crusing and fishing permit you can use the spear...it is part of your permit. As always only pole or H. Slings allowed.

NO...you may not take a conch...no way...no how. If you are a cruiser and you want conch to eat on the boat the advise is to get a receipt when you purchase the conch and have it with you just in case.
I guess nothin' is forever.

[coconutscottage]

"...The general public is advised that the Queen Conch (conch) is considered to be an endangered species throughout much of its range within the wider Caribbean area, including The Bahamas. The Government, in an effort to ensure the continued sustainability of local conch stocks, has decided to prohibit the harvesting of the species by foreign boaters."

They may need to revise it if the intention was to prohibit non-Bahamians from taking Conch. I know of a couple of places I could swim to.

[SamFamAustin]

Shhhh! The idea is to drop off a conch gatherer from a boat and they'd bag a few and walk home - no conch on a boat, no problemo!

I was thinking of importing a few of those cute pigs from the Exumas so they could help ferry those loads for us buoyancy-challenged folks. Barbado goats are also excellent swimmers, although much more ornery. Look for a company advertisement on this Forum within the next year or so. /Sammie

[schadm]

I agree on a limit for the bottom fish, just not as strict as only 20# per trip...that is insane...We had a group of 5 families coming over to the Abacos this May and all of us have cancelled our trip and are going to the Key's instead. It isn't that we are freezer fillers, it's just we'd like to come back with a little more than 6 pelagics and 1 20# grouper/snapper for a week's trip. All in all, we figured an average of approximately $5000 to $6000 USD per family with lodging, bait, restaurants, gas, etc. Another thing is I heard the annaul Bimini Fling has been cancelled, this event alone rakes in over $1,000,000 USD in Bimini....This was definately not thought out very well and appears to be a knee jerk reaction. From my past visits over there (not to the Abacos, but to Nassau and Grand Bahama) the Bahamians do not even like Americans, the only thing they want is us to leave with an empty wallet. I was even told by a server at Jack Tar restaurant in Lucaya that "We only tolerate you American's because you pay to put our kids to school"

[Crooked Hook]

Sammy, you are probably correct. unfortunately some people wiil continue to fish after they get there limit and toss the samllest ones overboard. This is bad for everyone!! As far as the 20 lb limit is concerned, what do you do if you bring up a 35 lb grouper???

[Crooked Hook]

Abocofever,
It is quite a stretch to introduce the bluefin tuna into this discussion. There is no question that the tuna has been way overfished to the point of being on the endangered spieces list. A large fish can sell for upwards in excess of $150,000, a small bluefin will sell for $30,000 to $50,000. The bluefin's are being hunted by commercial fisherman. This kind of moeny is driving these fish into extinction.
The same people are taking 35,000-50,000 lbs per trip of pelagics and anything else they net from the Bahamaian waters. Wouldn't it make more sense to heavely regulate the commercial guys? I am in favor of regulations, but I do believe the Government missed the mark on this one!