Ban on turtle harvesting!

[patw]

The Ministry of Agriculture and Marine Resource hereby announces that the Fisheries Regulations governing marine Turtles have been amended to give FULL PROTECTION to all Marine turtles found in Bahamian waters by prohibiting the HARVESTING, POSSESSION, PURCHASE AND SALE OF TURTLES, THEIR PARTS AND EGGS. The new regulations also prohibits the molestastion of marine turtles' nests.

The new regulations will come into effect on Tuesday Sept 1, 2009

[SamFamAustin]

That's great news, PatW. I know some locals love their turtle soup but it's about time the Bahamas joined the international treaties regarding protection of all marine turtles.

In my young and dumb days, we caught a few "cooter" freshwater turtles in Florida and proceeded to clean them. We had hatchets, knives, saws, hammers ... and the biggest bloody mess you ever saw. For a turtle of nearly two feet of shell length, we got maybe two puny handfuls of the worst-tasting stuff you ever attempted to eat, like burned rubber or something. Never wanted to do that again.

Thanks for passing along the news.
sammie

[trubahamian]

I guess you have never enjoyed a turtle steak smothered in mushrooms,onions and wine sauce,corn salad and peas and rice aye? Wally's had the best restaurant served turtle in Abaco,not as good as Mummy's but very tender and good indeed.Another part of our Family Island Heritage will be gone,but that's the way things are going.

[bahamajb]

Possession too.Guess I should start cleanin' out the freezah!!

[PELLUCID]

I predicted this would happen in a post 2 or 3 years ago, but I didn't think it would be happening this soon.

To my Bahamian friends, I'm sorry you are losing another part of your heritage. Does it help to consider that the turtles are worth more to the Bahamas alive than dead? I'm speaking in dollar terms of course. It does reach a point where the negative publicity of turtle killing turns away more tourists than the meat and shells of the turtles are worth.

To my environmentalist friends, I'm sorry to frame an emotional issue in such crass terms. But at last these beautiful creatures are protected by law.

[SamFamAustin]

You guys are making me hungry! Steak, mushrooms, onions, and wine sauce? The stuff I had was boiled into shoe leather. You know, the more "modern" we get, there more rules and regulations and taxes and intrusion into our lives and our ways of life.

But over the years, maybe not the Bahamas so much, the sea turtle has been sorely abused, such as by egg poachers in Mexico - who consider turtle eggs to be a male aphrodisiac and sell them for about 5 bucks each (eat them raw, mon!). The Kemp's Ridley nearly went extinct. The Loggerhead has nearly disappeared as well, along with the Leatherback and others. The Green seems to be holding its numbers OK here in far South Texas, although their native ground is in the Yucatan.

Naw, you locals didn't do the evil deed as much as the developments, the pollution, the longliner fishing boats, and all the propellers in the water. Some turtles we rescue come in looking like Chop Suey they are so mangled, either by props or large sharks or both. About a quarter or a third of them have ingested plastic bags, which causes them to get the quarms and not pass, if you know what I mean. Many turtles love to eat jellyfish but their reptile brain mistakes plastic bags for the real thing.

I don't take any satisfaction in the bans, more regulation, and more inspections. If mankind had been gentler on the species, we would have plenty for your table. I am very sad about all this.

Sorry to write at length, but just today we were talking about the 60s and 70s when giant pods of tuna would roam the coasts, and catching one was common as having a chicken in the freezer. Giant armadas of sea turtles would come into shore to lay their eggs, sometimes number in the thousands on the full moon high tide! Some days when the snapper were running in totally flat waters, it almost looked like you could walk on the water!

But those days are done and gone. Something happened. To find some tuna, sometimes we have to drive offshore 100 miles. A few sea turtles come back now, maybe 50 nesting females coming back as an encouraging sign, but nowhere near the thousands we used to see in a year. No, this is not a happy moment. I beg forgiveness for mankind for our transgressions, and hope that a few rules can allow them to be more plentiful. -sammie

[DaGoose]

Sammie,

I hear you loud and clear about the abundance of fish that used to roam our local areas here on the left side that now are scarce.

California has mandated "MLPA's" (Marine Life Protection Acts) that have been implemented up north soon to be in the south here too. I've attend a few of the meetings discussing areas to be closed, use regulations, yada yada. It boggles my little brain observing all the special interests trying to work it out, each with an agenda.

The tuna are making their annual migration north, as always. And the super seiners are wrapping them up with deadly efficiency before they get here. Heard from a sportboat captain yesterday that he watched them wrap skipjack and bonito for cat food, with the going price of $1000 per ton. Don't get me started on the longliners.........arghhhhhhhhh.

It makes me wonder though, if a miracle happened and these activities were stopped, would they pay the extra $$$ for sustainable rod and reel caught fish?

Ah heck, sorry for the rant and thread jack. I hope the turtles make a nice come back.

Maybe some day there will be a globaly applied, reasonable solution for all the ocean fishies and everyone will be happy.

Call me a dreamer!

Rick

[BahamaAngie]

Do you think it may be possible that there are so many regulations coming up because they want to sell only farm raised fish and some how make more money....is this a possibility.

And Sammie, you amaze me so much of all the knowledge you have in so many areas of life. Did you always keep your nose to the grindstone? I think it is awesome and find it generally intriguing to me. Thanks for always being here to share it. Oh and speaking of all the progress lately. I don't mean again to steal the thread here but I am....we just came back from a long ride along the coastline and I can NOT believe how things have changed here and how so much more aflluent. Where do these all these people get their money? So different from life in the sixties/seventies. Except for the industrial area of NJ, we are truly a beautiful state.

[DaGoose]

Hi BahamaAngie,

Good point on farm raised fish. There's a catch to that too. Unless the fish are vegetarian, like tilapia, you need to feed them meat. In the ocean, that means they need to eat baitfish, and lots of them. Which in turn leads to overtaxing that local resource, adversely impacting all the other wild fish that feed on them too.

Just south in Mexico, they had several bluefin tuna pens at the Coronado Islands. The seiners catch them, transfer to a pen, then slowly troll them until they anchor up with the others. The whole area was loaded with support boats too. They exported them mainly to Japan for sushi and had to feed them massive amounts of food (baitfish) daily which they netted. This year there are only two operations left, due to the high operating expenses. And the baitfish population took a beating.

Sorry for the soap box! It's time for a cocktail and get ready to go fishing tomorrow :D

Rick

[SamFamAustin]

Except for some nice success stories on mariculture, which includes oysters, clams, and mussels, the Great Aquaculture Experiment has been a complete and total failure. Sure, some catfish and tilapia have been bred in freshwater ponds, but they live in their own poo and frankly, I won't touch the stuff.

Recently, Chile has had a devastating issue with salmon farms due to pollution, over-medication using banned substances, and a sea lice infestation. Three very large consortia run by the Norwegians and the Chilean government have all but closed. Come to find out, these fish flooded the market two years ago - remember that cheap-cheap supermarket salmon? Well, it wasn't wild-caught from Alaska. Aquaculture sucks.

Rick has a point about those purse seine and longliner boats that can take 100 metric tons a shot, while us poor little fellas sit on the sidelines waiting for just ONE runt tuna to hop onto your hook. It's a crying shame. The commercials get to rape the sea and the honest people, who take real good care of the fish and respect all the laws, get screwed.

And BahamaAngie, I am not a smart person. My IQ is only slightly above average. I am simply observant, and tend to collect things I want to remember like a sponge. Gosh I did horrible in school, all Cs or Fs, and was told that my musical ability was "maybe the bass drum" at best. I went on to become all-state tuba player by 6th grade and haven't looked back since! I couldn't write until I went to grad school. Late bloomers are a beach. ;)

[BahamaAngie]

You are way too modest, Sammie!

Rick and Sammie, we will NOT buy any fish that says "farm raised" but then again how do we really know??? It has to be "wild caught" what a crock isn't it, what should be a natural way just like organic this or that when it was the way we were brought up. tsk! tsk!

Having some wine at cocktail time today!

[patw]

Some of you may want to read the article from the newspaper.
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/news/45/ARTICLE/20379/2009-08-28.html

[cobra]

Now that we have 'protection' of the Sea Turtles, how about we now turn our attention to the protection of the Queen Conch and the Spiney Lobster?

When I moved to my present location in Abaco, it was common to see dozens of conch on the grass beds surrounding our dock, and 'crawfish' under every rock. Turtles were not that common back then.

Today, however the situation has been reversed. We see a dozen or more turtles off our dock on a daily basis, and enjoy watching them feed on the grassy bottom. But, there are NO conch or crawfish in sight.

We have attempted to re-stock the area with 'seed' conch, but they are as quickly removed by poachers. Similarly, our man-made 'reefs' which have been stocked with crawfish are likewise raided out of season. People seem to have no compunction about depleting marine life which pleases their particular palate, but are shameless when it comes to advocating for the banning of things which they perceive as needing protection.

If left alone, the way it appears to this old f**t, we will soon have to give up our go fast boats due to an over abundance of turtles getting in the way, but have to import conch and crawfish.

Should conch be placed on Seasonal harvesting? Should crawfish be further protected by extending the Closed Season, and/or limiting the take to minimal number by Commercial Crawfishermen only?

I fully support the banning now placed on turtles as they are not necessary to the diet of Bahamians. But, the conch and crawfish still remain as a staple.

What you tink?

[trubahamian]

Loves the"We". As I crawl back back into we grass hut and ponder we future,I wonder if peas n' rice and veeny sausage are all we 360,000 of we will have left to eat.

I hope there will be no season on veeny sausage.

[SamFamAustin]

They make Vienna sausages outta turtle? Ewwww! :eek:

As to the locals picking conch and crawfish, it would be political suicide for any Ministry official to do that - other than to further restrict us off islanders. Too many make a living off of them. It might come a day when there's not many left, but not today. It's analogous to trying to stop power plants from burning coal in the US - it just won't happen overnight. As much as I agree with protecting conch and crawfish, there are political realities. And of course that indescribable island breakfast treat, canned sausages. ;)

[cobra]

Now if you really want to talk about Bahamian Breakfast delights, let us not forget that old staple - SARDINES.

That is right. Sardines in da can. Can be eaten plain with fresh lime juice, or smothered in a juicy tomato sauce and served with white grits (or yellow).

So, when the conchs and crawfish are no longer, does of we who have a taste for Sardines will be right at home.

Sammy, you have no doubt had this delicacy at some point on Dickies Cay?!?
If not, you should arrange to have some on your next trip to that tropical paradise. :-)

[AbacoPeach]

Speaking of vienna sausages... My very first trip to Guana was in 1988. Carl and Chorene took our group (3 couples) and Sandy and Pidge to Baker's Bay. Talk about unspoiled!!!

We all were getting a little hungry so Chorene made us some hor' deurves: vienna sausages sprinkled with lemon pepper and saltine crackers. Those where the best things we ever put in our mouths!!! Jerry and I kept talking about how good they were and tried to duplicate it when we got home. They were good, but it just wasn't the same! Probably the same as Kalik tasting better when you are in Abaco...

[SamFamAustin]

I love sardines, pickled herring, and I even eat raw flying fish sometimes. The sardines can be back in oil, brine, or sauce, don't matter except the oil ones ain't my favorite but I'll eat 'em. A great hurricane food, last forever. Myself, I have to have Saltines or some water biscuit like that, although grits sound like fun. Much better than Veenie Wieners in my opinion, especially the ones with fake BBQ smell on 'em.

Dang this takes me back to when I was a student with no money. Remember ChefBoyArDee canned ravioli and that kind of stuff? Well that was splurging like High Times! You could hot-plate 'em or just eat 'em right outta the can. Yep, always have some on by hurricane stash for those times when I felt small and puny. Lasts up to 2 years, too.

Ah ... the memories ... sorry to get off the turtle thing. Yeah we've been saving turtles down here, rescues and marine doctors and all. But I had some green sea urchin roe this spawning season that wasn't too bad once you figured out how to open them up. It turns out that stuff is high priced over in Korea. Tasted like sardines to me, kinda caviar like, to be honest. -sammie

[patw]

Sidney eats his vienna sausage with old sour and bird peppers. Sorry, I have never liked vienna sausage.
We did have some stewed conch the other night that was to die for! :D


Speaking of vienna sausages... My very first trip to Guana was in 1988. Carl and Chorene took our group (3 couples) and Sandy and Pidge to Baker's Bay. Talk about unspoiled!!!

We all were getting a little hungry so Chorene made us some hor' deurves: vienna sausages sprinkled with lemon pepper and saltine crackers. Those where the best things we ever put in our mouths!!! Jerry and I kept talking about how good they were and tried to duplicate it when we got home. They were good, but it just wasn't the same! Probably the same as Kalik tasting better when you are in Abaco...

[MotuIti]

Those of you may have been to Rosie's Place on Grand Cay, you'll know what I'm talking about:

.............Here I once had his famous combo of Cracked Conch, Turtle Steak, Lobster Tail and Grilled Grouper.

I wonder if he's still open for business??

-Sandy

[Island Daze]

While i agree that the turtles need some help, here in NC where i live they are killed all the time by giil nets and trawlers, i see that eating turtle is a way of life and you cannot deny that to the Bahamians.It is a shame that the government bowed to the US and international pressure without trying to have a kill limit for locals so the traditions could be preserved.Bahamians watch out because the grouper are going to be next on the banned list that comes from Big Brother.

[sail pending]

Those of you may have been to Rosie's Place on Grand Cay, you'll know what I'm talking about:

.............Here I once had his famous combo of Cracked Conch, Turtle Steak, Lobster Tail and Grilled Grouper.

I wonder if he's still open for business??

-Sandy

Rosies Place on Grande Cay is doing very well now that it is the only place to buy fuel in that whole region of Abaco. We stop there from time to time and always enjoy the turtle steak. The combo dinner is incredible and the Egg McWalkers is the best breakfast sandwich in the world.

[SamFamAustin]

While i agree that the turtles need some help, here in NC where i live they are killed all the time by giil nets and trawlers, i see that eating turtle is a way of life and you cannot deny that to the Bahamians.It is a shame that the government bowed to the US and international pressure without trying to have a kill limit for locals so the traditions could be preserved.Bahamians watch out because the grouper are going to be next on the banned list that comes from Big Brother.

CITES, or the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species is only meant to prohibit international trade in certain endangered species such as rhinos, the queen conch, and sea turtle. I believe that the Bahamas is now a signatory to that 1973 treaty. It is not a total prohibition, which is why zoos, researchers, and rescue centers can get permits to handle such species across international boundaries.

As an example, it is perfectly legal to catch queen conch in the Bahamas, but it is illegal to import or export them in certain conditions (e.g., no developed lip, permit needed, etc.). It used to be that many conch were illegally exported from the Bahamas to Florida.

What the Bahamas does within its own territorial waters, outside of commercial trade, is up to the Bahamas and not any international treaty. For another example, bluefin tuna are in Appendix 1 of CITES but many countries do not follow that element of the treaty. In theory, Bahamian law can allow a fisherman up to 18 pelagic, migratory fish such as bluefin tuna, where the treaty allows only limited access as a "by-catch" of one or two per day per vessel (this varies but you get the picture). Eighteen versus one, two, or none? That's a big difference.

Now let's talk Spiny Southern Lobster. Yes, it's on the CITES list of threatened or endangered species. However, it is legal in the US if you follow the state and federal regulations, make a valid permit and/or fishing license, and follow the bag limits. Indeed, several million pound of lobster tails are packed and some enters international trade, such as to Europe markets - all perfectly legal. The question we have there is whether to restrict the harvest in the Bahamas to a "limited access fishery" in which the times and pounds of harvested tails are very closely monitored. This would mean that recreational lobster fishing would be heavily regulated and only permitted commercial fishermen could catch them. That decision is one the Bahamas have to make on their own, just like the prohibition on messing with turtles.

I'm no expert here but some explanation of CITES might be of some use.
sammie

[Stone Malone]

Now that we have 'protection' of the Sea Turtles, how about we now turn our attention to the protection of the Queen Conch and the Spiney Lobster?

Quote - ''When I moved to my present location in Abaco, it was common to see dozens of conch on the grass beds surrounding our dock, and 'crawfish' under every rock. Turtles were not that common back then.

Today, however the situation has been reversed. We see a dozen or more turtles off our dock on a daily basis, and enjoy watching them feed on the grassy bottom. But, there are NO conch or crawfish in sight''. - end quote

So Cobra, since the turtles had no protection until this week exactly why did their population rebound? And if conch and crawfish ''get the protection they need'' are you going to enjoy sitting on the dock and watch them feed on the grasssy bottom too?

Conch do need to be better regulated. I would be ok with a season if they have a spawning season in the way crawfish do. And no exports, that would lower demand. Crawfish regulation is a little tougher, we allready have a season, law enforecement is so lax because it's so expensive. Every summer I see Florida registered boats crawfishing in plain sight. (the locals at least don't let you see them) We could have a limit on the total take at a national level (like if you've ever watched ''Deadliest Catch'' the length of the season is determined bt a preset number of pounds) Ha Ha that would be fun to propose, like someone said 'political suicide'.

I think it's sad that Bahamians can't eat turtle anymore (personally I don't care for it and don't eat it) A season, a size limit, bag limits etc who could argue with that? In my opinion we are seeing more turtles now than 20 years ago because very few people collect the eggs anymore (some still do and that's the pinacle of ignorance) So like Island Daze said we should be crying about the gill nets, long lines, purse seine nets etc... all the extremely detructive gear sweeping the globes' oceans clean instead of applauding the little guy loosing his occasional turtle dinner. Especially since the turtles in Abaco have rebounded without any protection.

I think conch and crawfish will always be around, they will be harder to find is all. And the grouper spawning aggregates are protected from the boneheaded fishermen (that's as stupid as taking turtle eggs) so hopefully they will stick around too.

Please make a donation to Friends of the Environment.