A Trying Time Trying to Administer the Forum

[DrRalph]

Over the past few weeks a number of “unflattering comments” have been made publicly and privately about those of us who own and administer the Forum, as well as several of our members. What we’re going to recount has been posted on this as well as two other message boards that deal with Abaco, and in emails and private messages that we have received or are aware of. Here is a sampling of what is out there:

WandaT, Notes From the Road, and VisitorTime are all the same person; the Forum is abetting and soliciting Wanda’s posts, and/or I am actually posting as Wanda.

Wanda should be banned because she is too controversial; Abaconians get banned because they post controversial material, and it isn’t fair.

Anyone who opposes the new power plant doesn’t care that “poor electricity” is destroying all manner of devices on the Outer Cays; one poster has promised to give us a daily update as to how much damage his gizmos sustain until opposition to the power plant stops.

The Forum either produced the “scary” Bunker C video, paid to have it made, or solicited it.

Poster A makes a snide comment about Poster B, Poster B chides Poster A for having a bad attitude, Poster A writes to us claiming to have been physically threatened, and wants to know if we will consider providing physical security at her residence.

Trusted Poster C goes to another site and accuses me of being rude, having banned two of his favorite former members for “trivial reasons.”

Poster D admits “we need tourasses,” (the newest pejorative term for visitors) but wishes they would keep their “unsolicited comments” to themselves.

On the same day, Poster E accuses us of being “anti-development,” and asks us to delete several posts and ban several members. Later that day Poster F accuses us of being “pro-development,” and asks us to delete several posts and ban several members.

Two Forum members build a new web site, we provide technical assistance, they thank us and tell us “we don’t want to start a war with anyone.” The majority of their content, however, deals with complaints and insults directed at Forum members. Not surprisingly, some of the most vocal critics are people who have been banned from the Forum.


* * * * * * * * * * *


In 2004, at a time when we were involved with the day-to-day moderation of the old AMB, people starting telling us that they wanted the freedom to discuss “controversial issues,” that we should expand past the “trip report/weather report/ferry schedule-only” content limitations. AMB ownership refused (and still does); but when we opened the Forum in 2006, you folks made it very clear that you wanted that privilege. As such, we provided you with “The Rant,” a Forum dedicated to the civil discussion of controversial issues, such as development.

We made our guidance policy very clear, we have “four golden rules:” we asked that posters avoid religion, US politics, commercial posts (except for Forum sponsors), and most importantly, that posters treat other posters in a civil, respectful manner, especially when they disagree with a previous poster. We have asked the membership on a number of occasions if you are happy with these policies, and those of you who have taken the time to respond have overwhelmingly been supportive.

None of us are Bahamian, we all live in the US, we are all tourists. We are very clear about this in our Policies and Userguide (http://abacoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4526); our three principle advocacies are tourists, retirees/second homeowners, and the people who work in Abaco’s hospitality industry.

In three years we have banned 13 people: six were spammers that snuck through, and two were imposters, people posting using someone else’s identity. Two others were banned for 1-2 weeks: they got very agitated about a topic (and possibly inebriated), and said some very ugly things about posters they disagreed with. They were both re-instated.

A member whose husband works for a certain development became so agitated that we allow negative comments about said development that she threatened and harassed us publicly and privately to the extent that we not only had to ban her, I had to configure an automated response in my email program to deal with her frequent, ugly messages.

The final two people we have banned absolutely refused to keep their political and religious views off the Forum, despite numerous edits, deletions, and warnings. One of them wrote about us on another site, “They are nothing better than the other ********s of the unborn and marriers of sissy-boys.” Would you let someone who publicly said that about you post on your message board? I guess we should not be surprised that these three are among our biggest detractors over at bashtheforum.com. We don’t ban people because they are controversial. Yet they refuse to acknowledge that out of 1300-plus members, they were the only ones who have been banned because they couldn’t follow a few simple rules.

WandaT, Notes from the Road, VisitorTime, and I are four different people. We have different IP addresses, we live in different places. We have never solicited them or “orchestrated” anything they have posted on the Forum.

As for being “unsolicited,” I get solicited by the Bahamas Ministry of Tourism at least once a month. I get an email from them that essentially says, “Come to the Bahamas and spend money.” And I do, once or twice each year, as do tens of thousands of other tourists. Maybe you people at bashtheforum.com can come up with a form that the Customs agents issue us tourasses when we clear, something along the lines of “Welcome, spend money, have fun, but don’t say or write anything that might upset someone, because you really just don’t understand.”

Two prominent Abaconians who “don’t like to get involved with silly message boards” have written me privately and stated that even if Abaco had a state of the art power plant, the people on the Outer Cays would not benefit unless the transmission lines to the cays, and the local transformers and neighborhood lines were completely refitted. Neither of them gave me any reason to anticipate this would happen in the next several years.

The “scary” video Bunker C was produced by a group called Clean Power Abaco. We have tried to find out exactly who these people are; the best we can do is that they are Bahamian, and one is an Abaconian. We had nothing to do with its production, but we must admit we are flattered that some of you thought we had that much talent.

I have it on very reliable authority that the Prime Minister, Parliament, and the members of the other organs of the Bahamian government do not consider Forum content when they are formulating policy. We certainly do not as an organization communicate any content to the governments of the Bahamas or the US.

It’s a message board, folks, one of a jillion. It’s ones and zeros that drift through cyberspace like so much space dust. If you don’t like what you see or read, then don’t visit the site, it’s that simple.

[BahamaAngie]

I am speechless. I am sorry that you are having this difficulty. We all love this place and think you are doing a great job (the 3 of you) and appreciate it so much. It is my outlet from my frustrations. We have formed a "family" here. People should just chill out. Life is tough enough. I guess not for a lot of people who have the time to be so verbally cruel. Again, sorry that you had to endure this for your volunteer time.

[SusieAndAl]

Dr Ralph and Team,

Thank you for being truly neutral on some very controversial issues here.

Times are tough here right now, uncertainty is high and emotions are running rampant (on both sides) because of the largest infrastructure project in Abaco's history.

There will always be fringe elements on the left and the right; they are NOT the majority, vocal as they may be.

I live here and some posts from non-Bahamians drive me nuts because they have no basis in facts here. On the other hand, some Bahamian posts are equally maddening because they too are based on foolishness.

Because of the ban on speaking about US politics (which I agree with), I won't be able to comment on the parallels of this and what happened this summer in the US.

But that's OK. The vast majority of posts here are rational, well intentioned and useful. Forum members love this special place (BOTH foreigners and local) and by far the most just want what's best for Abaco, period. Some are more brusque than others, some better informed, but in the end we all want the same thing: a beautiful, thriving Abaco and her cays.

So folks, let's tone down the rhetoric please, and all work together to achieve real results our children can be proud of, for both the environment and commerce.

This moment in time is like kidney stones: painful, but it too shall pass.

Respectfully,

Al Lill

[serenity]

QUOTE: It’s a message board, folks, one of a jillion. It’s ones and zeros that drift through cyberspace like so much space dust. If you don’t like what you see or read, then don’t visit the site, it’s that simple.

Amen Doc it really is just that simple

[Sunshine]

Dr. Ralph, I appreciate all you and the others do to keep the forum going. I enjoy visiting each day to see what's new and all the wealth of information that is available here that cannot be found elsewhere. I don't understand...if people don't want to read other people's posts and opinions, DON'T. It's a simple concept. They need to get over it or deal with it. Dr. Ralph, thanks again for all you put up with, as silly as it has to be.:confused:

[Charlotte Couple]

Wow! Such controversy! I wasn't even aware of all this, because I have practiced what has been suggested here, and read only the threads that interest me.

While I did read the power plant thread for awhile, I haven't visited it lately, because I see that as an issue for Abaconians, and I don't have the engineering/technical knowledge that some here do.

It astounds me how confrontational some people are. Life is too short for all that drama, and I salute the AbacoForum for finding what I consider a good balance between free expression and over-the-top controversy. I'm especially surprised that people who appreciate the laid-back quality of Abaco can take discussions to such a low level.

I rarely visit the old board, and barely even knew that a new one was out there. I only visited it today, after reading this thread, and from a brief visit there, I see nothing that will entice me to be a regular there. I get everything I need from this Forum, and from visiting Abaco myself.

Thanks for your patience, Dr. Ralph, Peach, Jerry, et al. I hope you feel the love from 99.9% of us here!

[Sail41]

Dr. Ralph, You and your team do a great job. Too bad that a few people don't appreciate the time and effort. Keep up the good work.

[Patti Puzo]

So well written, so clearly expressed.

What a breath of fresh air.

Also, I agree with what Lat said, but can narrow it down a wee bit...
If I see certain members posting, it's gotten to the point where I skip over it, or stop reading that thread. It's all sounding like the same angry, flaming garbage (IMHO).
Thanks for taking time out of your busy day, and your primary occupation to address this issue. You, Peach and Jerry are the best.

[cobra]

Doc, No worries. The Forum is still the BEST!!

[floridaskater]

I think someone deserves a mudslide

[Stone Malone]

I think someone deserves a mudslide

or a Kalik

Booze really can solve alot of issues

"rock on Alex"

[Willy Landham]

WandaT, Notes from the Road, VisitorTime, and I are four different people. We have different IP addresses, we live in different places. We have never solicited them or “orchestrated” anything they have posted on the Forum.


Yeah right Doc :rolleyes:.

All of that is just designed to throw us off the track... isn't it? Verrrrrrry clever but NOT clever enough cuz I've got you pegged.

I've got it on good authority that DrRalph, Jim Morrison, D B Cooper, Big Foot, Elvis, Eliot Spitzer, and Lady Gaga are DEFINITELY all the same person. And don't even get me started on Sam! :eek: (He's not even from this planet!)

This place is FULL of conspiracy I tell you. FULL OF IT!!!

You have been warned.

WL

[PELLUCID]

In the words of the Bloggy Boyz, Jeezus H. Key-rist.

I leave for a few weeks to earn some money so's I can spend it this coming season in the Bahamas, and what do I find? Reason has been toppled from her throne. Oh wait, that was the French Revolution. I get these spasms of popular uprising all confused. Has anyone been guillotined lately in the islands? No??? Excellent. That restores my faith in humanity.

I issue a confident prediction. None of this hoo-ha will matter much in five years.

But wait, there is more. I will put my money where my mouth is. I will accept $100 bets, at even odds, five year payoff, from any comers, regarding the negative outcomes of the new power plant. Just propose your bet on this forum, and I will either take or decline it, publicly. You can bet me on an oil spill in the next five years. You can bet me on acid rain in the next five years. You can bet be on coral bleaching in the next five years. Just make your offer.

Oh, and let me make it VERY clear. I oppose the power plant. I just don't think it will have any measurable negative effects in five years.

Any takers?

[JJ]

Hang in there Dr. Ralph and the abacoforum team. You are doing a fine job.

[Shelby]

Poster G (that's me!) thinks that you and the other moderators of this board are saints for putting up with the cr*p you do!! I'm so sorry you've been dealing with morons -- apparently the Internet's full of 'em (present company excluded, of course!) Thank you for providing this Forum -- hope all the b.s. blows over soon!

Amanda

[Jsenn]

Two Forum members build a new web site, we provide technical assistance, they thank us and tell us “we don’t want to start a war with anyone.” The majority of their content, however, deals with complaints and insults directed at Forum members. Not surprisingly, some of the most vocal critics are people who have been banned from the Forum.


* * * * * * * * * * *



Dr. Ralph, I am disappointed in you, I didn't figure you to be a child, I guess I was wrong. This bickering back and forth, pitting one faction against the other garbage is incredibly childish and embarrasses me that I have to come here to respond to it (though i'm sure i'll be 14 on your list, it's ok this will be cross posted on our forums)

First off, don't flatter yourself, your "Technical Assistance" consisted of a private message suggesting I create a rules thread and you notified me of Re-Captcha. Though to hear you tell it, it sounds as if you built the page and molded our forums, only to have all of your hard work thrown in your face by the evil, ungrateful overlords at Abacouncensored.

Second, all of those points you speak of were said in what was supposed to be a private forum for Abaconians only (read; NOT PUBLIC), yet you come out here very publicly and ridicule us because you disagree with what they are saying PRIVATELY. You didn't even attempt to contact us to do something about it, though to be honest I would have told you to get bent because it is a private forum. I don't know who your mole is but we will find it and deal with it.


WandaT, Notes From the Road, and VisitorTime are all the same person; the Forum is abetting and soliciting Wanda’s posts, and/or I am actually posting as Wanda.


By your own admission (privately, sucks doesn't it), you have previously posted under numerous pseudonyms during the beginning days of your forum. Saying that you "had so many different accounts you had a hard time keeping track of who you were supposed to be". Perhaps you're jealous that we've been successful without having to resort to things like that. Or is this just an attempt to create traffic between the two sites with a little bit of drama? Either way, shame on you for the way you handled it.

We have two similar sites that cater to vastly different opinions, our site promotes people expressing themselves (especially Abaconians) despite what our administration staff believes, your site doesn't care for differing opinions, or even Abaconian opinions for that matter. For that, we will always be at odds.

Instead of keeping it private where it should have stayed, you for whatever reason decided that some private opinions needed to be publicized. Pretty low if you ask me and I believe it shows your true character and the true character of your forum and staff.

I am sure I will be banned and this will be deleted so feel free to respond on our board, it will be very public and open to discussion.

Have a wonderful day.

Jsenn
Administrator
Abacouncensored.com

[Shelby]

JSenn, it's evident that you, your daddy and your cronies weren't going to be satisfied until you had a venue where you could b*tch and badmouth and bully and slander with no need for pesky honesty, respect or accountability. You now have it. So why on God's green earth must you come back here and bother the rest of us?? Get on back to your own board and don't let the door hit you in the backside as you leave. Apologies to the Forum moderators and my fellow Forum members but I've kinda had enough of this b.s.

[Jsenn]

JSenn, it's evident that you, your daddy and your cronies weren't going to be satisfied until you had a venue where you could b*tch and badmouth and bully and slander with no need for pesky honesty, respect or accountability. You now have it. So why on God's green earth must you come back here and bother the rest of us?? Get on back to your own board and don't let the door hit you in the backside as you leave. Apologies to the Forum moderators and my fellow Forum members but I've kinda had enough of this b.s.


Dr. Ralph opened the door on this when he publicly posted private information which was received under false or otherwise misleading pretenses. I have a right to defend our board and will do so, I apologize for the obvious harm I have done to you for having a differing opinion, I know it's difficult for ignorant and stuck up people to consider they are wrong so i'll let you slide.

As much as I have a right to defend our board, Ralph certainly has a right to ban me, which I am sure is a right he will utilize, which is why this same post is on our board where it will stay and be completely open for discussion as it should be.

You brought up a decent point, however misguided it may be so I felt the need to respond. Have a wonderful night :)

[DrRalph]

Jsenn, you have built a business (I assume you are selling advertising and making some money) whose principal endeavor is encouraging hateful and ugly commentary about the membership of this Forum. Did you think we'd welcome you with open arms and congratulate you?

The old "Uncensored" was an ugly atrocity. When we learned that you and your father will going to resurrect it, we offered to cooperate with you, in the hopes that your site would not become the reincarnation of the old. You told us you were having a difficult time with spammers, and we told you how to solve it. At a social event at the Abaco Inn your father expressed frustration that it seemed like it was taking a long time to build traffic, and did I have any suggestions. I told him that in the early days when we had only a few members, I would use a pseudonym, ask a question, or start a debate, in an attempt to stimulate traffic. He laughed and thanked me, and said he would consider using the strategy. And where did that get us?

You see Jake, hate always leaks, it's really hard to contain. Some of your members are utterly disgusted with what you have created. I get emails from people I've never met and don't know copying me the ugly, sarcastic, hateful things that your, what, 12 members say about our 1300. That has become the lion's share of your content. And you're unhappy because it was all supposed to be private.

Why don't you tell our membership what your people say about them, maybe you could roll out a few of the uglier posts and let us have a look. Oh, I forgot, they're private.

I suggest you refrain from visiting the Forum until you can either apologize to the membership, or you can get your people under control.

[Jsenn]

Ralph, I would be happy to speak our members opinions about this board, as well as my own, I and our members kept our opinions private though because that is where it should be. There is NO reason why any of this needed to be public and I don't say that because I am ashamed of our membership, let me be clear on that right away.

Most of your membership makes me sick to my stomach because it consists of a group of people who, because they spend some money in the area, they believe they own it and should have equal say in local matters, it's disgusting. It's that very attitude that causes most of the world to hate Americans.

You having more members doesn't impress me. I have access to the logs, I know how much traffic our forums truly gets. For the record, neither I, nor my father have made a penny since re-launching the site, yes we have advertising but as of now it has been free.

Though, I do have to give you credit for not banning me straight away. You will NOT receive an apology from me. What you did was wrong Ralph. There is no reason why you needed to handle this the way you did. Just because some of our members don't like you and have expressed themselves in a private section of our site doesn't mean you need to go blabbing about it publicly. Again, I am not ashamed at all about the content within that forum, but it's private nonetheless.

Good day.

[DrRalph]

Most of your membership makes me sick to my stomach because it consists of a group of people who, because they spend some money in the area, they believe they own it and should have equal say in local matters, it's disgusting. It's that very attitude that causes most of the world to hate Americans.

There you have it, folks, a personal note from them to you.

[Abacobrad]

is that we all love the Abacos and the people of the Abacos. It seems that everyone is too worked up these days. At least when the hippies protested in the 60's LOVE was their sword. Now its hateful news media, hateful bloggers, and hateful people shouting each other down. Time to stop the shouting. Frankly I have no desire to visit uncensored or whatever it is- no offense but I am bombarded enough already by FOX and Friends!

Sorry that you are taking a beating out there Ralph, Peach & Jerry. As Susan says " No Good Deed Goes Unpunished".

Have a Great Day all- The sun is shining in Georgia.

Brad

[AbacoPeach]

Jsenn, your message board perpetuates hate and ill will so you aren't ashamed?!

[AbacoPeach]

"The sun is shining in Georgia." Thank goodness!

[JJ]

Fortunately everyone I have met in the Abacos has been warm and welcoming and does not share Jsenn's opinion. If they did, my first trip would have been a "been there done that" sort of vacation and not a destination that I return to whenever I can. The location is beautiful, but there are many beautiful vacation destinations. It is the people that keep us coming back.

[WandaT]

First off I want to say thank you to the people who have tried to help all of us understand the new type of Power Plant to be built on Abaco. Yes there are 2 sides to a story and all I (or we) have been trying to do is get information, do research and share it, post opinions, relate info on points made or try to understand points made, By posting on this forum we have been able to cross check statements with a lot of knowledgeable people. If any of my posts were deemed too controversial I am sure that they would be deleted. If I went off on a tangent seemingly asking the same question it was to get more information on the subject and make sure we understood it correctly so we would not misunderstand. What is wrong with educating oneself?

I am not a politician or have any ambition to be one as in the "other" forum's assumption. I am not a plant, just a curious person with many friends who are curious too. I do apologize to a person who has answered many of my questions as I guess I upset that person and was a pest to him. The only 'agenda' I have, may be to protect the beautiful place some call home and others call their second home or are visitors. And the term "tour..." is on more than 1 site. But I don't consider anyone that term.

We are people that spend our money in a truly beautiful part of the world. Some are local born Abaconians, some are transplants coming from other Islands in the Bahamas and others from all over the world. By being told to leave if we' don't like it on forums or at public meetings, it makes one wonder why we want to stay. But we do. There are more people that are amazingly kind, intelligent, open minded, concerned and will give you the shirt off their back if needed in this world than the other kind. There will always be curmudgeons in this world we live in. That is their nature.

I will continue to ask questions if I am allowed to do so. It will be to ascertain what has been said. I have never claimed to be an expert on anything.

In closing I do apologize to the Forum Administrators for all they have to put up with. It shows their TRUE LOVE of Abaco and also their concern that subjects as important as this one are allowed to continue. This will affect a lot of people both Bahamian, Second Homeowners and Visitors. By not allowing a frank discussion like has been occurring here is when the wild and unfounded rumors will start and will grow each and every day. I have been corrected more than once in the question or statement that was posed. That is why the thread is so important to all of us. :o

[Charlotte Couple]

I find two things interesting about JSenn:

1. He talks as if he lives in Abaco and doesn't want to hear opinions from people who don't, but his address says he lives in Ridgecrest, California. (I know his dad lives in Abaco, but not him.)

2. On his profile it clearly says that "JSenn has not made any friends yet"

[islandfever]

I went to the uncensored site and made note those individuals that were posting there. I recognized several old sign in names. Before they were banned here, it was always something sour and usually personal attacks against Forum members. All I can say is thank you Dr. Ralph for banning them. Let them stay on uncensored and wallow in their hate there.

[SamFamAustin]

I'm with Pellucid's reaction on this. And I did get sorta crosswise because I said something unflattering about Wanda over there, and for that I profoundly apologize - no, you are not a "plant." I'm sorry.

But I don't understand all the angst directed at DrRalph or the forum owners. Just because people post opinions here doesn't mean that the Forum in any way backs those opinions. And no way am I part of that management team, or intend to appear as a "redcoat."

Baker's Bay was very painful for the Forum owners here, and now Wilson City has raised its ugly head, creating even more hoo-dah. I have attempted to stay neutral, which I guess at times meant supporting or not supporting the project although I never, ever unequivocally said "don't build it" or "it's perfectly OK to build there."

It's just that in these trying times, it seems like people are all too quick to fly off at the handle. We've got to learn to coexist, folks, and that includes the AMB, Uncensored, and this Forum. I'll be taking a short break from the computer because my son is getting married and we're having two family reunions - theirs and ours. Wish me luck, the other family is Italian and has us outnumbered twenty to one! :eek:

Again, I apologize for anything I have done.
sammie

[Charlotte Couple]

Stick it, Sammie!:D

[SusieAndAl]

Sam: Thanks. It takes a real man to realize and then correct his error. We really need your technical skill. And good luck with the wedding!

Wanda: Thank you as well. You never resorted to the vitriol given (nor deserved) by a few not-so-bright folks.

Dr Ralph & Team: I would recommend ignoring these people; it's sad because PapaNasty has done great work here for which we are grateful, but clearly he and his son have gone over the line of civility.

PapaNasty: Please continue to post (many of yours were outstanding), but tell your son to stop the nonsense. It is counterproductive.

Best Regards,

Al Lill

[JJ]

Fortunately everyone I have met in the Abacos has been warm and welcoming and does not share Jsenn's opinion. If they did, my first trip would have been a "been there done that" sort of vacation and not a destination that I return to whenever I can. The location is beautiful, but there are many beautiful vacation destinations. It is the people that keep us coming back.

It appears that I was mistaken in assuming Jsenn was a local. Now I am really confused.

[DrRalph]

From WandaT:
In closing I do apologize to the Forum Administrators for all they have to put up with.
None of you owe us an apology. Quite the contrary, we owe you an apology for having to drag this mess out into the open. And, we'd like to thank all of you for your continued support and participation, it really means a lot. In our three years I have made so many new friends, met so many interesting people, and learned so much about a myriad of issues. I consider all of you my extended family, and after watching this situation fester for several weeks, I felt like I had to defend my family. Somehow, the people at AU seem to feel that being ugly and hateful is completely acceptable as long as it's done "privately," which it obviously wasn't. And I'm not naive enough to think that any of what gets written hear will stop the hate parade, but it least everyone now knows where everyone stands.

From Sammie:

But I don't understand all the angst directed at DrRalph or the forum owners. Just because people post opinions here doesn't mean that the Forum in any way backs those opinions.

Apparently, this is what sets off the AU people, and a lot of other Abaconians as well. Some of you locals have made it very clear to us that you feel insulted when a tourist expresses an opinion about a local issue. A guy who has been visiting Guana Cay for two decades states that he wishes the development on the north end hadn't happened, and right away he gets accused of taking food out of the mouths of babes whose parents won't otherwise be able to find a job because he had the nerve to oppose the development. He's one little guy on one little message board, and the money he spends DOES put food in the mouths of babes. And boy, do they hate hearing that!

And look at the attachment, I got solicited by the Bahamian government again today. Apparently somebody down there wants us tourasses to visit. And you can bet we will, we love the place!!!

[Jsenn]

Jsenn, your message board perpetuates hate and ill will so you aren't ashamed?!


No, I am not and I will tell you why. What is said in a private forum is just that, private. As well, it only seems as though it's perpetuating hate because the views and opinions of our members conflict with your own, the perpetuation of hate that is not.

I am proud of our members because they stick up for themselves and as I said, what is said in private conversation should be kept private. None of this would have been an issue if Ralph would have left it private like it should have been.

[Jsenn]

Just to clear up any confusion over my status, no I am not a Bahamian, I have lived and worked down there for over a year collectively (legally) but I am not a local. I do, however, share the opinions of the locals because they are the opinions of the locals on our board, anyone who has read it would be able to figure that out.

My opinions of this board are my own and are specific to the people of this community, none of which would need to be said if Ralph hadn't opened the door to this by posting publicly, opinions and information that was originally posted privately.

That is my main gripe. It was wrong and he should not have done it.

[DrRalph]

JSenn, we didn't ban you this morning because we wanted the membership to experience the AU mentality first-hand. This has never been about a "difference of opinion" over a development or a power plant, it's about the ugly, personal insults your members direct at Forum members. For example, I could trot out some very ugly things you people have said about AbacoPeach, a Forum co-owner, but it's her birthday and she doesn't have to hear it again. You want protection for your site's content because it's "private," but you haven't defended the hate.

If you go back to my original post, you will note that I did not name names, I did not use the term "Abaco Uncensored;" I'm betting the great majority of our members would not have made the connection from "bashtheforum.com" to your site. You could have just let it drift by, and in a few days it would have been forgotten. But you just can't pass up the chance to attack us, can you? Not real bright.

So with that, I think it's time for you to say good-bye to the Forum. I am sure you will bang us like a gong over at AU, but then that's nothing new, is it?

[dive guana]

Let me just stick my nose in here .
I registered on the other board a while ago and soetimes lurk . I went into the private section and read some of the stuff said there . Private means when me and a friend sit down at a table and have a conversation NOT when you type it into a computer and put it in words and leave it for all the world to see .. It doesn't matter if you need a password to get in . Just becuase you need a password definitely does not mean that it does not count - that it does not exist - that you had your fingers crossed when you said it it really does not count . Once it is in print it counts , trust me ! Ask president Obama if his comment about Kanye West being a J#$%^&*ss counted even though the camera was not supposed to be on and officially he was not being interviewed yet . It counts !

When someone says something that is against your beliefs you have 2 choices - listen and say nothing OR listen and respond . And it is how you respond that seperates the sheep from the goats . I think some of the responses that are expressed on the other board and sometimes on this board go waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the edge but it certainly makes for good entertainment .. That being said sometimes it is better to step back and take a deep breath before personally attacking someone just because you disagree.

Now I am against Bakers Bay and I am on the fence about the power plant but we all need tourists and we all need dependable power . Sometimes I get a little hot under the collar when someone posts something that I believe is wrong but generally i try to temper my response in print . Let the debates continue

Keep up the good work , Ralph and crew

Troy

[Shelby]

No, I am not and I will tell you why. What is said in a private forum is just that, private. As well, it only seems as though it's perpetuating hate because the views and opinions of our members conflict with your own, the perpetuation of hate that is not.

I am proud of our members because they stick up for themselves and as I said, what is said in private conversation should be kept private. None of this would have been an issue if Ralph would have left it private like it should have been.

If you knew nearly as much about Abaco as you claim, you'd know "private" is a relative term. :-) I've heard through a family member a number of things that have been said/discussed on that so-called private board. And for the record, NONE of what I've heard came from Dr. Ralph or anyone here on the Forum.

Slander, lies and hate (oh, don't forget racism!) are no less evil because you whisper them in someone's ear instead of shouting them publicly. I would argue they're even more insidious that way.

Conflict is not hate. Disagreement is not hate. Hate is hate. Anyone with a maturity level above 12 can tell the difference ... which may explain why you and your cronies are having trouble with the concept.

There's room on the Internet for everyone. I just don't get why you can't enjoy your board, and leave us at the Forum to do the same.

[DaGoose]

Doc,

Thank you so much for providing a such great forum for folks to share their love of the Abaco's. We really enjoy it along with the comraderie of so many new friends. It's too bad **** like this happens.

Jsenn, good luck with your ad sales ;)

Rick

[PELLUCID]

OK. I want everyone who is really, really certain that they are right to notice something. I offered you even odds, with real money, for you to make your point. 24 hours later, no takers.

Is my bigger point clear? Speech is free, and so opinions are very very cheap. But when I ask people to propose puttting their opinions to the test, with actual money involved, all of a sudden they get real shy.

Let's say you know with 90% confidence that in the next five years there will be an oil spill at the power plant. I offer you a $100 bet at even odds that it won't happen. Applying simple math, you are able to buy a $100 bill for $10. Wouldn't you do that? If not, why not?

Again, let me repeat, I think the power plant is wrong. But I think so for aesthetic reasons, not logical/mathematical/empirical reasons. And I think the Bahamian political system should allow for aesthetic rejection of development ideas, just as (truth be told) it does in other advanced nations. None of us should be slaves to policy wonks in high places. All of us should have a say in the development that occurs around us.

[Abacobrad]

in 5 years will be exactly the same- regular un-announced outages, rolling / sharing BS, and appliance blowing power surges. And I bet that we'll live with it and keep coming back and keep loving Abaco all the same!:D

Brad

[DrRalph]

in 5 years will be exactly the same- regular un-announced outages, rolling / sharing BS, and appliance blowing power surges. And I bet that we'll live with it and keep coming back and keep loving Abaco all the same!:D

Brad

I agree, Mr. Brad. Rest easy, everyone.:)

[papanasty]

Let me say one thing my site is not up for me to make MONEY PERIOD. No ONE and i mean NO one has given me a dime to set the site up or advertise on it. I have not collected a dime from any one that advertises on the site, advertiseing is FREE!!!! I did it so the Abaconians would have a voice because they sure as hell get squashed on this site

If there are people out there that were given the privelage to access the private section of our site and couldn't keep there MOTOR Mouth shut, well then stay off our private site and email me that you can't keep your mouth SHUT and we will remove you from the PRIVATE section of the Forum and you won't have any thing to ***** about!!!

Its amazing that all this happened with out me having input about the content of the statements made.. This private section was created by Abaconians for Abaconians and should only be viewed by Abaconians that wish to register and vent there opinions whether the forighners like it or not. There are a couple people that are not Abaconian but i feel that they can be trusted and i allowed it.

Well if they run there mouth about the content of our PRIVATE section of the forum then they will get **** canned also. And if the people that are being allowed to put there adds on our site for FREE and they don't like it they can also take a hike ITS NOT ABOUT MONEY ITS ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!! Respectfully Papanasty :mad:

[DrRalph]

Loren, seven, count 'em, SEVEN people who have access to your private forum have emailed us in the past three months about your private forum's content. Two were from people who made generic comments to us such as, "You need to know that most of the people who post in the private room are bashing the Forum and its members," and the other five actually copied us posts from the private forum. As I said in my original post at the top of this thread, a lot of your members are disgusted by what goes on in there.

And, if you'll take another look at my original post, I make it clear that the people who have been banned from our Forum could not keep their religious and political views off the site, despite numerous warnings. And NONE of them live in Abaco.

Abaconians are welcome to post on the Forum, they always have been, and they obviously do. Do not attempt to portray us as "anti-Abaconian;" we love Abaco, that is what this web site is all about. We've never had to hide our content, you don't have to hide something unless you are ashamed of it. And we've never suppressed a post unless it violated our four "golden rules," which we have always made clear. Some people just cannot be civil.:mad:

[PELLUCID]

in 5 years will be exactly the same- regular un-announced outages, rolling / sharing BS, and appliance blowing power surges. And I bet that we'll live with it and keep coming back and keep loving Abaco all the same!:D

Brad

And I'll bet that you can't find anyone to pick up the other side of that bet! :D

[Shelby]

ITS NOT ABOUT MONEY ITS ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!! Respectfully Papanasty :mad:

Seems to me that speech ain't so free if you gotta password protect it. I'm all for venting opinions, but it's hard to respect the opinions of someone who doesn't have the balls to share them publicly and stand behind them. And just to be clear, the person who forwarded me content from your private little b*tch board was NOT a foreigner, but an Abaconian. Not everyone who laughs at your jokes is your friend... Just sayin's all.

[trubahamian]

[QUOTE=DrRalph;53939]Loren, seven, count 'em, SEVEN people who have access to your private forum have emailed us in the past three months about your private forum's content. Two were from people who made generic comments to us such as, "You need to know that most of the people who post in the private room are bashing the Forum and its members," and the other five actually copied us posts from the private forum. As I said in my original post at the top of this thread, a lot of your members are disgusted by what goes on in there.

Doc......If you are a friend to Papanasty,mabbee it would be a nice gesture to email him the names of the seven disgusted people so he can ban them from his board so they won't be disgusted anymore? Just sayin.:)

[PaBill]

OK, I may regret getting into this, but since the pot's been stirred, I got some e-mails asking about this:
(quote)
None of us are Bahamian, we all live in the US, we are all tourists. We are very clear about this in our Policies and Userguide; our three principle advocacies are tourists, retirees/second homeowners, and the people who work in Abaco’s hospitality industry.

...with an inquiry of exactly what is meant by "Abaco's hospitality industry", and does that set apart which Abaconians are more favored by the Forum, the bartenders, taxi drivers, dive operators, realtors, etc.? They would really like to know how to take it, as if they need to be subserviant in some way.

Just passing it along.

[JJ]

From the Policies and Userguide hyperlink in Ralph's first post in this thread:

"Welcome to the Abaco Forum. The Forum opened on August 2, 2006; it was conceived and is operated by five people who had previously administered the original Abaco Message Board. This site has three principle functions:
The Abaco Forum is an advocate for tourists and second homeowners. All of us who own and operate the Forum are US citizens; we live in the US and visit Abaco. Our goal is to enlighten new and returning visitors about vacation as well as retirement opportunities in Abaco.

We are also an advocate for tourist-oriented businesses in Abaco. One of our primary goals is to match the tourist with the right venue, whether it's a resort, cottage, airline, boat rental, restaurant, whatever. We greatly respect and salute the owners and employees of Abaco's hospitality-oriented businesses. You people make it all worthwhile!

Lastly, we offer you, tourist or Abaconian, a forum whereby you can offer your feelings and opinions regarding topics as they relate to Abaco. We allow much greater leeway then the Abaco Message Board when it comes to allowing your free expression, but we ask that you respect the people you disagree with."

Pretty self explanatory, IMHO, that the forum is for anyone interested in the Abacos.

[DrRalph]

Doc......If you are a friend to Papanasty,mabbee it would be a nice gesture to email him the names of the seven disgusted people so he can ban them from his board so they won't be disgusted anymore? Just sayin.

I think the nicer gesture would be not exposing people who sent me information in confidence.


None of us are Bahamian, we all live in the US, we are all tourists. We are very clear about this in our Policies and Userguide; our three principle advocacies are tourists, retirees/second homeowners, and the people who work in Abaco’s hospitality industry....with an inquiry of exactly what is meant by "Abaco's hospitality industry", and does that set apart which Abaconians are more favored by the Forum, the bartenders, taxi drivers, dive operators, realtors, etc.? They would really like to know how to take it, as if they need to be subserviant in some way.


The key word here is "principal." The Abaconians we most commonly deal with, whether it be as tourists or 2nd homies, or as web site owners with clients, are people who work in the hospitality industry, many of the people you mentioned. Our foremost goals have always been: match the visitor with the best experience, get the 2nd homies the info they need, or an outlet to vent, and present cottage owners, resorts, rental boat companies, etc., to the visitors.

That does not mean that we do not respect ALL Abaconians; we certainly do. Anyone who can live and thrive in Abaco is a very special person. We have never implied anyone is considered subservient, or has lesser stature, than someone else. For many visitors, the highlight of their trip is their interaction with the locals, they post that here frequently.

Again, when a visitor expresses an opinion that relates to a "local" issue such as a development, some of you take that as an insult, or a sign of lack of respect. No one here means to insult any Abaconian. Most visitors/2nd homies are "ecotourists," we don't come to Abaco to gamble, go to fancy shows, museums, concerts, whatever; we come to go to the beach and see the ocean and the Sea of Abaco, we don't want to see that ruined, and we're going to say so.

[papanasty]

Frankly your the one that spurred us to create the private section of the Abacouncensored because you complained of some one A Bahamian that was commenting on our forum about your web site,and you made the comment to me that you suggested it should be called Abacocensored.

So out of courtesy we created the private section of our board so that what Bahamians had to say about you and the people and comments of your forum would be kept amongst them selves and not circulated publicly as not to create a forum war as some people would call it!!

You either got thin skin or you just can't take confrontational remarks and don't blame me for what people express about you and your forum i have not made one derogatory remark!!! These quotes or posts are not coming from me I am not trying to be 10 different people as you stated you were when you started the Abacoforum!! And as Wonkee put it you compared Half A Hamian his father to a DOG!! Now thats getting pretty low to say the least!!

I know of at least a dozen people on our forum that you and Peach have banned so don't blame me for your demise, if some one has some thing to say its just not pulled out of thin air,they probably have a good reason for saying it,I catch Rif all the time but you can't let it bother you,you just have to move on, this is why my site is totaly funded by me absalutely no one is going to dictate what i can say or do on my site I own it and i except nothing from any one that wants to advertise on the site so if they don't ike it they can let me know and i will remove them. Respectfully Papanasty :)

[AbacoPeach]

Frankly, you have lost any sense of reasonableness and your diatribes are indefensible!

Your basis in fact is a sinkhole.

[DrRalph]

I know of at least a dozen people on our forum that you and Peach have banned

That is a lie, you have FOUR members that we've banned: Half, Wonk, Cpt Nancy, and your son as of yesterday. If you go back to my original post, there is a very clear explanation as to why they were banned.

[papanasty]

You dabbled in a area that is none of your concern,it is private and was not made available to you except by people that have no sence of integrity that can't keep there mouth shut!! No big deal we have weeded them out and we will implement safe gaurds to ensure this does not happen again. I figured this would happen but thought it would happen farther down the road. To those that can't respect a direct request to keep it private in that area well there gone. we don't need them and don't want them on that section of the forum. Since when do any of you have the right to tell us what to do with our site and how to run it. I do not tell people what to say or do so the content does not come from me and do not encourage any one to say anything towards any one obvoiusly people have a different opinion of your group though,some thing i have no control over respectfully Papanasty :)

[AbacoPeach]

Hey, you got caught with your pants down. Just move on and do whatever it is that you do. Oh, one more thing. You can lose the "respectfully"...

[TOLERance]

I think the nicer gesture would be not exposing people who sent me information in confidence.



The key word here is "principal."


But, but, but...isn't that exactly what you are faulting the Uncensored Board for doing?

[minor]

It’s a message board, folks, one of a jillion. It’s ones and zeros that drift through cyberspace like so much space dust. If you don’t like what you see or read, then don’t visit the site, it’s that simple.

Nice quote, got me thinking.
How did you end up with the "offending" statements?
People sent them to you.
Now we have this whole mess.
So if there are more "offending" statements made over there do you want them sent to you too?
If we hear someone in town insult the message board should we send you and email?
I'm being a bit silly of course but you get the point.

[DrRalph]

From "more than a dozen" to four is a "whatever?"

No one here is telling you how to run your site or live your life, that would be a waste of time.

We never solicited the "offending statements," they just started showing up. And minor, you don't have to email us every time someone in town insults us, but if they start gathering to insult us every night for three months, I think we'd need to hear about that.

Several members have asked that we close this thread. We'll leave it open until this afternoon, so if you have any last minute thoughts, and you want them posted here, do it now. After that, you'll have to follow the carnage over at AU.

[raptor]

Enough already!!!! I'm on all three Forums and this is getting pretty tiresome. Why can't you agree to disagree and move on to other things and all stop trying to get in the last word? Declare victory in your own minds and pull out the troops or something. Ban each other. Close the Threads. Anything!

[AbacoPeach]

I totally agree!!! Enough said. Let's move on... THREAD CLOSED.