New passport law strikes

[patw]

http://www.thenassauguardian.com/bixex/294121898726150.php

[Abacoparrott]

Although it's still too early to tell for sure, this drop-off does not surprise me at all. Americans are about convenience. Ya gotta make it easy for them to spend their money and they will. Too tough=no spend. Although some will learn (and think enough of the Bahamas) and get their passports, some will never return. When you couple this passport thang with very expensive fuel, 300.00 boat permit, more limited fishing regs.....well, no ONE THING will cause a drop-off but they ALL do add up. What SHOULD be surprising is the number of us who try to ignore the negatives and STILL keep a'commin' to Abaco......hence the term "Abacoholics".........Ken

[Charlotte Couple]

Wonder what the Bakers Bay developers think of this. Wouldn't it be a shame if the dropoff in tourism discouraged them?

[Jerry S]

Wonder what the Bakers Bay developers think of this. Wouldn't it be a shame if the dropoff in tourism discouraged them?

Would be a God send to the reef! It is amazing that employment on Guana is 100% without DLC and there are usually 80 or more workers coming from MH each morning on the ferry..

[Abacoparrott]

will not affect Bakers Bay. That demographic group already has passports.....ken

[sandy shaw]

The phrase "only in America" flashes into my mind! Every other international traveller throughout the world has had to acquire and hold a passport to cross international borders for ever. A passport is a simple document, that's all. It's easy to apply for, easy to obtain and is good for 10 years. Come on America - get with the modern world, stop grouching, get your passport and continue to travel - it broadens the mind!!

[Jerry S]

The phrase "only in America" flashes into my mind! Every other international traveller throughout the world has had to acquire and hold a passport to cross international borders for ever. A passport is a simple document, that's all. It's easy to apply for, easy to obtain and is good for 10 years. Come on America - get with the modern world, stop grouching, get your passport and continue to travel - it broadens the mind!!

SS, Peach and have had ours for years, makes life much easier at the airports and customs :)

KP, how are the muckety muck rich folks going to react when good old BEC and Batelco leave them without service for weeks at a time? It is going to take one H***uva tent to keep that golf course from being spread all over GGC during a hurricane.. Just my 2 cents ;)

[islandfever]

Although it's still too early to tell for sure, this drop-off does not surprise me at all. Americans are about convenience. Ya gotta make it easy for them to spend their money and they will. Too tough=no spend. Although some will learn (and think enough of the Bahamas) and get their passports, some will never return. When you couple this passport thang with very expensive fuel, 300.00 boat permit, more limited fishing regs.....well, no ONE THING will cause a drop-off but they ALL do add up. What SHOULD be surprising is the number of us who try to ignore the negatives and STILL keep a'commin' to Abaco......hence the term "Abacoholics".........Ken

With the $300 cruising permit, passport costs, Bahamian Departure Taxes, fuel taxes etc. etc. a couple or family has spent $1,000 before they get a toe in the water.

[sandy shaw]

With the $300 cruising permit, passport costs, Bahamian Departure Taxes, fuel taxes etc. etc. a couple or family has spent $1,000 before they get a toe in the water.

Well, to incur the cot of a $300 cruising permit you're goin' to have to arrive on a million dollar boat (plus or minus) and burn $1000 of gas to get here. Sorry, my sympathy vote goes elsewhere...:rolleyes:. Fuel taxes, you pay anywhere in the world (except perhaps Saudi Arabia) and the Security Taxes (a.k.a. departure taxes)Americans pay in the states are just a smidgen more than the $15 the Bahamas charges...

[Abacoparrott]

that my boat doesn't cost ANYWHERE near 1 mil......and another thing....if Abaco depended on rich folks for it's economy, then Abaco would already be broke.......you have NO IDEA how long some folks save for a small vacation to Abaco.......ken

[Abacoparrott]

47.00 security + 15.00 departure = 62.00 total tax........just wanted to get that straight. The Bahamas pays the same amount for gas as do American companies......but the pump price is double.......YOU figure it out. Annddd.......I don't think we're looking for anyone's sympathy. If anything, I Empathize WITH the average Bahamian citizen and businessman but, they're not looking for my sympathy because they are very resilient and apparently used to the taxes that are assessed them.....The people of Abaco are the area's greatest strength......after these past few years of decisions, I can't say the same for the government....ken

[Jerry S]

Comon KP, you have got an easy 1mil. in that boat if you figure your labor at $5 per hour and travel,motel expenses :) LOL

[sandy shaw]

47.00 security + 15.00 departure = 62.00 total tax........just wanted to get that straight. The Bahamas pays the same amount for gas as do American companies......but the pump price is double.......YOU figure it out. Annddd.......I don't think we're looking for anyone's sympathy. If anything, I Empathize WITH the average Bahamian citizen and businessman but, they're not looking for my sympathy because they are very resilient and apparently used to the taxes that are assessed them.....The people of Abaco are the area's greatest strength......after these past few years of decisions, I can't say the same for the government....ken

Bull Doo: The Bahamas pays more for the base price of a gallon of gas. It has to be shipped from the Grand Bahama before it arrives in the Abaco adding extra transportation costs. The Bahamas consumes less gas per capita than the states, therefore doesn't enjoy the same scale of economy that you enjoy stateside, making the gas more expensive to buy from the distributor. Then, what a lot of Americans often forget when comparing prices in the Bahamas with home is that you have to pay income tax (and lots more) on each dollar before you can spend it. (There's no income tax in the Bah.) Don't you think the Bahamas is entitled to get their taxes somehow and this is via a 'consumption tax' i.e. duty and excise, stamp tax, etc., which is rolled into the price of the goods you buy?

As for the million dollar boat quote, I wasn't thinking of the sea gypsies who feel hard done by if they spend more than $50 on diesel during a season. Just look at the majority of boats either at anchor or in the marinas to get my drift!

[Abacoparrott]

I have 1 mil invested in STRESS alone......I forgot about that! Actually, when the weather is nice, working on the boat is really quite therapeutic. After a good, long day of working, I sleep on her VERY WELL.......

[Jerry S]

I have 1 mil invested in STRESS alone......I forgot about that! Actually, when the weather is nice, working on the boat is really quite therapeutic. After a good, long day of working, I sleep on her VERY WELL.......

Being Atalaya or Carol?:eek:

[Abacoparrott]

I am VERY aware of how the Bahamas collects their tax monies.....and actually wish the US would collect theirs the same way. Our basic argument is still the same.....all of the additional taxes that have come about in the last several years DO make a difference to a lot of us. How did you like the additional 700% increase on dock taxes a couple of years ago? How about the selling of oil drilling rights off of Walker's Cay? How about the huge developments that the government allowed on Bimini and Guana? The boat permit increases from 25.00 per boat in 2000 to 300.00 now? How much of these taxes actually benefited the citizens? Don't get me wrong, the US passes really stupid taxes every year. It's just that these increases DO make it more difficult for us to come to Abaco each year. To deny that is to deny the laws of economics.......ken

[patw]

Check this out! Sounds like a 30 day cooling period.
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=11330

[Abacoparrott]

Looks like they moved the cruise ship deadline from 2008 to 2009.......notice that? The Bahamas got 30 days. I guess you can tell from that who has the influence in Washington........The cruise lines KNOW that a certain % of their customers will never get a passport so they're begging to put this off as long as possible. I wish that the passport requirement was implemented tomorrow.....the ships would be 1/2 empty and the rates would go dooooooooooown...........so, for us with passports, this requirement is a good deal, anywhere. Fewer tourists=more competition for the remaining customers= lower prices.

A few folks have commented on the fact that in most other countries a large percentage of their citizens have passports and why not US citizens? Well, look at the geography. !st of all, size.....big country. 4 seasons.....We have mountains, beaches and everything in between.....in abundance......ski slopes, large cities, barrier islands (think Cays)....in other words, we have an abundance of choices....right in our own country. So, a lot of middle-class vacationers don't (and will never) have a need for passports whatsoever.

The consumer is still the boss. His/her choices will dictate what vacation suppliers can charge for their product. If the cruise lines (because of their demographic) had to follow the passport law beginning today, they would probably have to close up shop cuz they couldn't (honestly) fill up their ships. In addition to loving Abaco, Carol and I love cruises (that's a real combo isn't it?)so we've seen the documents that folks check in with......the MAJORITY are without passports. In my humble opinion(another real combo), cruise lines are gonna be hurt the most by this law. They now have two years to find a way to get the government to extend the deadline again.......I predict they will be successful because they HAVE to be.......that demographic will not buy passports easily......simply because they have a lot of choices right here at home......ken

[islandfever]

[/quote]As for the million dollar boat quote, I wasn't thinking of the sea gypsies who feel hard done by if they spend more than $50 on diesel during a season. Just look at the majority of boats either at anchor or in the marinas to get my drift![/quote]

You must be the public relations person for the Bahama's Department of Tourism and no doubt have a BS degree. Sea Gypsies? Really!

[PELLUCID]

Demographics are a big part of it. I've heard more than one American say something along the lines of "Travelers from Country X are so cultured! They are multi-lingual, well-educated, up-to-date politically and socially. Whereas, American tourists are so provincial!"

Well, DUH!

America is a lot more prosperous that almost any Country X you care to name. In spite of some things you may read, that prosperity extends further down into the demographic than almost any Country X. In short, a much higher percentage of Americans can afford to travel. Whereas, for any Country X, most travelers belong to their society's elite.

It's no wonder they all have their passports in order! They should, they are the best & brightest. Whereas the American tourist is quite likely to be middlebrow.

No insult to board members intended. Like the children of Lake Woebegon, we are all better than average ;)

[Jerry S]

Very well said Bob :)

[islandfever]

Very true and being called middle class is much better than being called a gypsy.

[Floridacargocat]

Passport requirements for US citizens. When a US citizen travels to the Eastern Hemisphere (Europe, Asia), he(she) knows, that w/out a passport nothing goes. When he/she travels in the Western Hemisphere, the traveler has become used to the previous way of thinking, that a B/C and a driver's license is identification enough ( a major exemption in legislation which existed for more than 50 years). Not any more, at least in the eyes of the concerned departments of the US Government.
Now, if we can believe certain publications being issued by relevant US Government agencies, the greater majority of US and other travelers DID have passports, when traveling to the Bahamas. Whenever the number of approx. "27 % of all US citizens have passports" is stated, this appears to be correct, but is out of context with travel to The Bahamas.
Something very unique which I got to know quite recently. Alien Legal Permanent Residents can reenter the US with their Green Card only. Consistent? I still carry my passport with me, when I come back from overseas.
If you read the link (as PatW has posted) very carefully, this represents statements of The Government of The Bahamas only, not of the US Government or any of its agencies. Had asked one of my contacts in CBP a long time ago about transition regulations, and there was no definite answer. All the small carriers that I am in contact with, have advised their personnel to check on passports, as the possible fine will be paid not by the company, but by the person having failed to check on proper travel documents.
If you want to travel on an international basis, get a passport please. Other countries have different requirements and would not know what a US B/C would look like and what kind of idendity it proves.
Whenever someone in the US asks me for proof of identy, I ask them: passport or driving licence. They say driving licence, as apparently there are not that many people being used to see passports, which proves the point, that a change in mentality and outlook is unavoidable.
Costs for a passport? It is part of international travel, and it is valid for 10 years (for adults).

[SamFamAustin]

ROFL, Mark Twain got it right in some of his books and articles regarding the "steamer" tourists who travelled to Europe and Hawaii and points all over, like their desire to put clothes on all the statues and natives. Trust me, the Boobus Touristii Americanus has a robust and long tradition to uphold!

Still, in the context of the Abacos, one can't escape the notion that much of the tourism is of the "yachty" or landed gentry sort. Until relatively recently, and possibly due to its British influences, jackets and formal attire were required for dinner. Of course, this image was relaxed in the post-hippie days, when many artists, surfers, and beachcombers found their way to the bliss of the outer cays ... one can see those funky old cabanas going up where only shorts and a T-shirt were de rigeur. Sandals and sanity were made optional.

Thence, one can trace the current cultural climate mix to the advent of the powerful offshore outboard motorboats, many of which sprouted up in Florida. Before, it would be unthinkable to take a 23-foot boat with a Mercury 85 across the Stream ... the rest is history. /sammie

[Abacoparrott]

Demographics IS a big part of "who will get a passpost and who will not". the average Abaco visitor for instance, is a much higher demographic than the average cruise visitor. Thus, the average Abaco visitor is much more likely to already have a passport than the cruiser. As I see it, Abaco won't be hurt MUCH. The cruise industry is gonna get killed if they don't get their extensions. The Brands that will get hurt the most? Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Norweigian.....the "chevrolets of the cruise industry". they carry the "middlebrow" that Pellucid referred to. Holland America, Princess and Cunard will hurt a little less and a line like Radisson Seven seas won't be touched at all.......ken

[Floridacargocat]

Check this out! Sounds like a 30 day cooling period.
http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=11330
See this latest newspaper report
http://www.thenassauguardian.com/bixex/295071566580109.php
Rules are there, and I believe, that on this board (as well as the other one), this subject has been mentioned for a very looooong time.

[patw]

30 day cooling period was not correct. This is from the Freeport News today.
http://freeport.nassauguardian.net/national_local/314837443122070.php

[ericinsc]

One solution:

Savvy cruise lines and mega resort operators (Palace resorts, Paradise Island, Beaches, Couples, etc) should offer $90 vouchers(or whatever a passport costs now) and assistance with the procedure (hotline or something to that effect)for travelers who have to get a passport. They may see smaller profits for a short while, but the end result would be continued profit down the road.