2nd home abaco vs fl keys

[gazeboman]

We've been struggling to decide for a while now. Here are the main points:

Peace & Beauty---Abaco wins
Comfort level of home for same $----Keys Wins
Cost & ease of travelto& from---Keys Wins
Snorkeling---Abaco Wins
Best Bar----Abaco (nippers) Wins
Health Care----Keys Wins
Services (power,water,communications,mercantile)---Keys Wins
Future Financial Predictability (taxes, services, travel to& from) Keys Wins

The true deciding category was the last one. The predictability of the $ is far better in the Keys. The thread "worst year in 19 years" is spot on. My fear is that the impending bahamian deficit will have to be made up from 2nd home owners. Anyway, we chose a place in the upper keys. We will still visit Guana regularly, it is too beautiful not to-just not the place for our 2nd home .

[Two Turtles]

May you enjoy it for many, many years:)

[peterodgers]

We've been struggling to decide for a while now. Here are the main points:

Peace & Beauty---Abaco wins
Comfort level of home for same $----Keys Wins
Cost & ease of travelto& from---Keys Wins
Snorkeling---Abaco Wins
Best Bar----Abaco (nippers) Wins
Health Care----Keys Wins
Services (power,water,communications,mercantile)---Keys Wins
Future Financial Predictability (taxes, services, travel to& from) Keys Wins

The true deciding category was the last one. The predictability of the $ is far better in the Keys. The thread "worst year in 19 years" is spot on. My fear is that the impending bahamian deficit will have to be made up from 2nd home owners. Anyway, we chose a place in the upper keys. We will still visit Guana regularly, it is too beautiful not to-just not the place for our 2nd home .

Resale is another consideration and another Keys win.

[vharrison]

Ron, welcome back to the keys! It was a pleasure meeting you and Becky last week. I hope the Cuban coffee was up to par. Another place that is supposed to have a good cup of Cuban is on the corner of Overseas Hwy and Cocoplum, right when you finish the Grassy Key stretch.
Did you find a place on the water?

[gazeboman]

Ron, welcome back to the keys! It was a pleasure meeting you and Becky last week. I hope the Cuban coffee was up to par. Another place that is supposed to have a good cup of Cuban is on the corner of Overseas Hwy and Cocoplum, right when you finish the Grassy Key stretch.
Did you find a place on the water?

The colada (sp?) was great, Thanks! We are bayside mm 95.1 not waterfront but great bay view with excellent sunsets & homeowners park with dock, ramp & beach & we can never lose the view -great privacy so we are REAL happy!

[island boy]

I agree with gazeboman on every point,having lived on Sugar Loaf for a bit,the Keys are more comfortable,cheaper to live and a better investment than Abaco is.Also the Bahamian Government will be forced to raise taxes not just on foreign owned properties,but implement them on Family Island/Bahamian owned properties for the first time as well.

Hardcore Abaco visitors will always come back to their "second home" but a quick ride around Elbow Cay,especially the south end tells what the future trend is here.The number of second homes for sale here is staggering.It started around 2007/2008 and now it seems epidemic and many of them are becoming weather beaten as the owners are not maintaining them as they were.

In any event some of us have family here so we will be here,but I truly believe that the times of making money flipping homes,locals making great wages and seeing Hope Town busy on a regular basis are gone for a longtime.:(

[minor]

My fear is that the impending bahamian deficit will have to be made up from 2nd home owners. Anyway, we chose a place in the upper keys. We will still visit Guana regularly, it is too beautiful not to-just not the place for our 2nd home .

The chinese called they like you to know that while they are in process of owning the bahamas they already have the US well in hand...
Not arguing your other points but the if you think that a country with a big deficit is a problem don't see the US as your place to invest.

[gazeboman]

Not arguing your other points but the if you think that a country with a big deficit is a problem don't see the US as your place to invest.

My opinion is one of a % of change. The % change (increase) in the total cost of ownership of a 2nd home in abaco is going to be far greater than one in the Keys using today as an initial date with a 5 year evaluation point.

[raptor]

The chinese called they like you to know that while they are in process of owning the bahamas they already have the US well in hand...
Not arguing your other points but the if you think that a country with a big deficit is a problem don't see the US as your place to invest.

So where should we go Minor, Canada? Not logical to leave the most stable and prosperous country on earth. I'm with Gazeboman here. We are pretty (really, entirely?) close to abandoning the thought of Elbow Cay. Looking more like Islamorada day by day. And they have a Sam's Club (cheap ice for the fish well instead of Abaco Diamonds), Food Lion (Cheap Pabst Blue Ribbon), Bass Pro Shop, non-duty boat parts, you name it, not that far away. We may make a run to the Bahamas but spending winters, doubtful.

[gazeboman]

. And they have a Sam's Club (.

Really?!?! Where is it? Didn't see it when we were there that's great news!!!

[Blue Moon Cottage]

if you want abaco type bars.. you will have to drive to key west. the wharf bars have sand for floors, no windows walls or doors and drinks are cheap and music is great!

[gazeboman]

if you want abaco type bars.. you will have to drive to key west. the wharf bars have sand for floors, no windows walls or doors and drinks are cheap and music is great!

Well this is a topic that I have some experience in:D :D The closest thing to Nippers we found was the Lorelie in Islamorada- Nippers style food, small sand beach (bayside) Great signature drink (bushwacker) a friendly bar dog and a "local" atmosphere:cool: Now we didn't visit EVERY bar in Key West so I might have missed one! --Suggestions??:)

[Patti Puzo]

Enjoy Ron and Becky! Congrats on your new place....

[raptor]

Really?!?! Where is it? Didn't see it when we were there that's great news!!!

Maybe I should have put it in our perspective here in Maine. We go to Augusta or Scarborough and both are about 50 miles away. Sam's is on the highway near the Miami Airport west of the city. About the same from Key Largo I think. There is a BJ's in Homestead which is closer. We like BJ's too.

[DrRalph]

I think the principal allure of Abaco, or any Bahamian destination, is that it isn't in the US. It's a different culture, a different way of life, one that we don't experience in the US, even in the Keys. We have vacationed in both places many times, we still like both, but I'd never give up Abaco. The Abaconian ambiance makes it a special place, you'll never get that in the US. That's why we come.

Other issues: beaches in the Keys are rare, and they are not nearly as nice as virtually any "average" beach in Abaco. That's one thing I really miss when we are in the Keys. And consider the shelter the Sea of Abaco provides boaters, even in the winter. The front side of the Keys can be blown out for weeks and weeks, leaving you with the option of getting your butt kicked or putzing around in choppy, murky Florida Bay.

Second homies in the Keys have their woes as well. My wife's sister has owned a home in Key Largo for many years. It's on concrete piles, and had a storage area, tool shed, and "garage on the ground floor. They've been flooded out several times by hurricanes, most recently by Wilma in 2005. The slab has cracked and the house has started to shift. So they are spending about $75K to have the slab and piles redone, new rebar, the works. They tell us this is going on all over the Keys. They also are going to have evolving water and sewage issues.

Living or playing in paradise has always come with a price, and if you've got some backbone, the rewards are worth the effort.:)

[SamFamAustin]

So, y'all like to go on vacation where they have Wally World, Sam's Club, Costco, and 80,000 square foot supermarkets? Ummmm, okay, different strokes for different folks.

I can say that when the big-box stores come into an area, the blowing trash gets a lot worse. Several communities have had to ban plastic bags, for example, a major problem for the sea turtles who think they are jellyfish. True, the convenience stores and burger joints didn't help, but the cost of trash removal caused beach access fees to skyrocket, and some areas had a $5 deposit to fill up a sack of trash. it used to be that 80 percent of our trash came in on the tide - today the numbers are reversed!

I'm not going to diss the nice State of Florida, which does have its darker side. I does seem that people will talk smack about the Abacos, since it is expensive and hard to get to, yet overlook some of the chronic issues in Florida, ones which lurk right below the surface. All I'm going to say is that we lived in Florida for a year and had to Boogie Back to Texas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWtedA4tSPw).

[Patty&Rudi]

Trying to decide which is the best place to live is a mug's game. We can visit any place and enjoy it, but living in a place for a longer stretch, such as a second-home owner, is a different kettle of fish.

Once you are past the initial week or two of enjoying the sun, sea, sand, bars, eating places, and other touristy things that make up the initial charm of a place, you then have to deal with and be compatible with the underlying energy of a place, its people, style, customs, and attitudes, and whether it feels like "home" in a way.

For me, this is the most important part if you choose to live somewhere, and that decision is not a simple adding up of dollars and cents, as if you really love a place for these reasons, the mind finds the way to satisfy the heart, but if the heart is not in a place, all the reasons of the mind cannot overcome that deficit - same as in a relationship of any sort between people.

[turtleman]

No doubt that we give up a lot of the conveniences we have in the US when choosing to have a 2nd home in Abaco; and, yes, most things cost a lot more. However, our total expenditures for almost half a year in Abaco aren't as crazy as you would think, in great measure because we don't have a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, TJ-Max and the like right around the corner, as we do at home. It's amazing what we DON'T buy and how much we DON'T spend on things we DON'T need. I've spent a lot of time in the Keys, mostly Key West, and wouldn't trade it for Abaco as a place to actually live a few months at a time. I like taking my golf cart to the store, cocktail in hand, or to the golf course. remembering to "keep left." I like my morning walk on the TC beach; we're almost in the middle, so it's one direction today and the opposite tomorrow. As to the hassles of travel, now that we're in TC for such long stays, we're looking at 2 or 3 round trips a year which is a lot easier on us than folks coming down for a week or so.:)

[Two Turtles]

I think the implications in some of the replys to gazeboman's obvious delight in finding a second home that works for them are unfair. They're not saying one place is better than the other, but that they made the choice that made the most sense for them. I envy them for finding their little piece of heaven. I live in Florida and the last thing I want is another home here (or anywhere in the US), but hey, how about a little congrats, and not raining on their parade!:)

[gazeboman]

I really didn't think this thread which was meant in part to share our decision making progress & comparisons with abaco would deserve to be a rant!!:(

We lived in the keys for 9 years so we feel we know the pros & cons. All totalled we have spent 42 weeks in the abacos always asking questions and looking at things relative to eventually making the decision that we did.

The Keys are not Wally World, great fishing diving & snorkeling, sunsets bars & restaurants--just have to share it with more people--glad Sam's club is an hr & a half drive away and the biggest supermarket is a half hour away about the same size as the new one in Marsh Harbor. It is not the get away from it all place that abaco is, but we will still have that when we visit there & for long term stays it is comforting to have 1st class health care a half hour away.

We are not 10 figure wealthy So the uncertain $ issues in the abacos was the deciding factor.

So as long as this IS a RANT my observation: A few of our friends were happy for us (Thanks Patti/Two Turtles & others) some non commital but some--well I guess the attitude was "just some more business lost":(

[island boy]

While my post may have been a little too biting and to the point for some,I not only agree with you but may I take a moment to congratulate you and yours and wish you both happiness in your decision.:)

Meanwhile....As I take a moment to relax while mummy showers,sip at my switcha and Stoli my thermometer reads 86 the wind is moderate from the SW and life is still very good here.

[gazeboman]

While my post may have been a little too biting and to the point for some,I not only agree with you but may I take a moment to congratulate you and yours and wish you both happiness in your decision.:)

Meanwhile....As I take a moment to relax while mummy showers,sip at my switcha and Stoli my thermometer reads 86 the wind is moderate from the SW and life is still very good here.

Thanks-and I sure wish I could inhale some Abaco air right now! It's about 7 above and to take a deep breath here (wisconsin) really hurts. :mad: By comparison it's 81 right now at our new dig shown below:)

[SamFamAustin]

Hey 'Zebo, don't feel like anyone is ganging up on ya mon. Every single place I've ever lived is both wonderful and slightly sucky, and no place on the planet is exempt. You pick your poison and make the best you can. Nobody has a right to say that your decision is good or bad.

If you do look at the Keys, especially by Key West, there has never been a recorded direct hit by a hurricane. There's quite a story about the chapel altar and perhaps why Key West was never nailed, one I can't fully remember but it does seem to work. Meanwhile, most every part of the Gulf and Florida has been repeatedly blasted by large hurricanes. I seem to recall that one named tropical storm where DrRalph in Daytona was flooded not once but three times, same storm!

On the same these, the reason why my parents will never stay in the Abacos during the summer in their second home was three especially bad hurricanes, one which brought 140 MPH winds for a solid three days. Nevermore!

So ... remember to bring some purdy flowers to that altar and to have a great time in the Keys. :)
sammie

[patw]

Ron, we are going to miss you and Becky at Dolphin Lookout. I am so happy for you and I hope you have enough room for us Guana folks at those new digs!! LOL!!! Hey, I could stand guard on that life guard stand!!
Is this in Marathon??? I have a friend that lives in Marathon.

[AbacoPeach]

How cute! Love it!

[gazeboman]

Ron, we are going to miss you and Becky at Dolphin Lookout. I am so happy for you and I hope you have enough room for us Guana folks at those new digs!! LOL!!! Hey, I could stand guard on that life guard stand!!
Is this in Marathon??? I have a friend that lives in Marathon.

Thanks Pat, we are at MM 95.1 which is on the border of Key Largo & Tavernier, about an hour north of Marathon. We are thinking of maybe namin the place "Dolphin Lookout-West" Have to see what Ben thinks of that! y'all welcome anytime!:)

[patw]

I have a friend who lives in Tavernier too! She used to live on Guana. Those houses across from Beach Walk. I spent a Thanksgiving in Key Largo at a really unique motel, Sunset Cove Beach Resort.


Thanks Pat, we are at MM 95.1 which is on the border of Key Largo & Tavernier, about an hour north of Marathon. We are thinking of maybe namin the place "Dolphin Lookout-West" Have to see what Ben thinks of that! y'all welcome anytime!:)

[gazeboman]

I spent a Thanksgiving in Key Largo at a really unique motel, Sunset Cove Beach Resort.

4 miles north of us!

[patw]

Cool!!


4 miles north of us!

[minor]

My opinion is one of a % of change. The % change (increase) in the total cost of ownership of a 2nd home in abaco is going to be far greater than one in the Keys using today as an initial date with a 5 year evaluation point.
I am sorry if i turned this into a rant thread I hope you are happy with your decision and enjoy any visits to Abaco. As for what taxes in the US or bahamas are going to do it really just making an educated guess, no one knows for sure.

So where should we go Minor, Canada? Not logical to leave the most stable and prosperous country on earth. I'm with Gazeboman here. We are pretty (really, entirely?) close to abandoning the thought of Elbow Cay. Looking more like Islamorada day by day. And they have a Sam's Club (cheap ice for the fish well instead of Abaco Diamonds), Food Lion (Cheap Pabst Blue Ribbon), Bass Pro Shop, non-duty boat parts, you name it, not that far away. We may make a run to the Bahamas but spending winters, doubtful.

2 things as I believe the Doc stated that is why FL is apples and Abaco is oranges, two different places and if money is your only concern then FL wins easy.

My original point still stands no matter how much you want to talk up the US, which is a great country. If you are worried debt level, it will make taxes rise etc., the US is like 95% GDP to debt vs the bahamas at 65%.

[Watercolours]

Thanks-and I sure wish I could inhale some Abaco air right now! It's about 7 above and to take a deep breath here (wisconsin) really hurts. :mad: By comparison it's 81 right now at our new dig shown below:)
What does the sign on the fence say????

[SamFamAustin]

What does the sign on the fence say????

Trespassers will be violated !!

[gazeboman]

What does the sign on the fence say????

"Do no steal ma center console with twin yammy's" :) really

It's a security company sign:rolleyes:

[patw]

Private Property!
No trespassers, survivors will be prosecuted!



We saw that sign in West Virginia!

[BahamaAngie]

Well, we just returned from skiing country (nice to visit, great to be home) and saw this post. Much congratulations to you Gazeboman for your new place! I am so glad you found a piece of paradise to enjoy. You can always visit Abaco and enjoy what you have loved. I feel you made a great choice. I have to tell you, that we love going to Abaco but when we went back to Hawaii two years ago, it was so refreshing to know we were in the states. I think it is because we are now over 65 and it was a comforting feeling especially when my husband collapsed at the beach and we could just walk into the emergency room to have him checked out. It felt so reassuring. I think Abaco is better for younguns and people who are still in good health. As you age and damn it comes fast, it is a nice feeling to know you are in the good old U.S. of A. As I have just recently learned this......"just saying"! We had discovered Key Colony and if we could have, I would have liked it there. It ain't Abaco but heck, we are flexible! Again, Good luck to you, congratulations and enjoy! I love it!

[Watercolours]

I think I saw that sign in Miami in lots of places also when there. Another caution is be careful of traffic when crossing US1

[vharrison]

So, y'all like to go on vacation where they have Wally World, Sam's Club, Costco, and 80,000 square foot supermarkets? Ummmm, okay, different strokes for different folks.

Lets get one thing straight, the Florida Keys do not have a Wally World, Sam's Club, Costco or a 80,000 square foot supermarket. For me, if I chose to seek out such a place, it would take me an hour plus to get there. ( and for the last 10 years, no, I have never gone to the mainland seeking such a store) About the only reason I go to the mainland is to get on a plane to go to the Bahamas.

People ask us all the time, why do you go to an island for vacation when you live on an island?...uh, because we love the islands! Ours and the Bahamian's!

Sam, as far as a direct hit from a Hurricane, don't forget Labor Day 1935
http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=631 Also, as you know, you do not have to have a direct hit to have the effects of a direct hit. After Wilma, we drove around Marathon and thought, hmm, we did okay. An hour later, chatting with a friend who lived on the bay, we noticed the water rising. I had 4 feet of seawater in my garage. :eek: Thankfully, we are on stilts like Ron will be.

[raptor]

That is right about the stores. My point is you can get to them in an hour and a half or so when it is time to stock up, which is exactly what we do in Maine. Although there are bridges to the island where we live, and a small store, we have to drive 15 miles for gas and diesel. Having a Sam's is relative to one's lifestyle and perspective of distance I guess. We found that Bass Pro Shop in Islamorada to be a wondeful thing! All the fishing gear, bait, and supplies on earth when wanted or needed. Lack of beaches is something of an issue in the Keys but they are there for boaters, which we are. Got to protect that 250 four stroke Yamahas though!

[vharrison]

Thanks Pat, we are at MM 95.1 which is on the border of Key Largo & Tavernier, about an hour north of Marathon. We are thinking of maybe namin the place "Dolphin Lookout-West" Have to see what Ben thinks of that! y'all welcome anytime!:)

Hey, we have clients in that neighborhood. Actually, I think we trim the "common palms" at the beach, depending on who is in charge!

[Patti Puzo]

Love the lifeguard chair! You hiring???:rolleyes:
I was hired as a lifeguard at the Contemporary Hotel at Disney World wwwaaaaaaaayyyyy back in my teen years, then my Dad got transferred to Colorado.;)

[gazeboman]

Love the lifeguard chair! You hiring???:rolleyes:


absolutely! the pay aint much though:rolleyes: When we are there maybe we could be a refuge for abaco travelers that get stranded?:cool:

[Patti Puzo]

absolutely! the pay aint much though:rolleyes: When we are there maybe we could be a refuge for abaco travelers that get stranded?:cool:


Deal! Besides, I think it's my turn to buy you drinks... right?

[gazeboman]

Deal! Besides, I think it's my turn to buy you drinks... right?

Well, it's your turn to buy, but at the new dig the owner makes a mean nipper juice and also my new downfall called the "bushwacker" which is a rum/bailey's/kahlua/dark chocolate ice cream concoction---& it's really really bad:D

[BahamaAngie]

Wow that sounds yummy!

[SamFamAustin]

I think you just might be whacking the bushes after three of those!

But 'Zebo the love shack does look might cute - I think I have beach shack envy now. Mine is a 1970 flat-top on stilts that is pretty plain Jane by comparison.

Oh and Raptor mon, I love Bass Pro for my fishing bling. I got my secret discount account and bonus points and ... this is all rather embarrassing.

[Patti Puzo]

Sounds YUMMY Ron!

[anchor out]

Gazeboman,
Nice looking place you have there. Congrats!
ken

[bagsarepacked]

Congrats on your decision! I think you have chosen a great place.
I would love someday to call the Abaco's home but I think a lot of the reasons you chose the Keys and the US are some of the same reasons why we will most likely end up on Fort Myers Bch. I would prefer the Keys but my hubby likes an area with more beach to walk. I have had wonderful times in the Keys....and while they do not have Nippers....
Alabama Jacks on a Sunday is a lot of fun too.
If you are ever looking to do an overnighter in Key West and want a nice, very reasonable, perfectly located B&B check out The Poplar House/aka Key West B&B. I have stayed so many times I have lost count. Wonderful people...you will feel at home.http://www.keywestbandb.com
Much happiness in your new digs!

[gazeboman]

Thanks to all who shared thier support of our decision. While Becky spent a year preparing to do this by watching "house hunter", I crunched numbers & we both weighed all the pros & cons & we are very happy & confident in our choice. The abacos will always be a favorite place for us & I'm sure the next time we visit & walk the beaches we will have some doubts. Now---- I heard that the contractors that built the 7-mile bridge in the Keys are visiting abaco and then are on thier way to Dubai-I wonder what that means???:rolleyes:

[Patti Puzo]

Thanks to all who shared thier support of our decision. While Becky spent a year preparing to do this by watching "house hunter", I crunched numbers & we both weighed all the pros & cons & we are very happy & confident in our choice. The abacos will always be a favorite place for us & I'm sure the next time we visit & walk the beaches we will have some doubts. Now---- I heard that the contractors that built the 7-mile bridge in the Keys are visiting abaco and then are on thier way to Dubai-I wonder what that means???:rolleyes:

Hah! As long as the Sheikh doesn't charge a hefty toll! I could pop in my convertible and won't mind the drive from CO at all!

[Moonstruck]

Now---- I heard that the contractors that built the 7-mile bridge in the Keys are visiting abaco and then are on thier way to Dubai-I wonder what that means???:rolleyes:

All you folks down in Abaco need not worry about that one. The contractor that built 7 mile bridge went out of business and Michaels died. Must have been a very tough job. I used to live in the same neighborhood with him.

Gazeboman, great looking place. I kept a boat at a marina just above the cut. It was there during Andrew. Sunsets are awesome. Enjoy!

[gazeboman]

I could pop in my convertible and won't mind the drive from CO at all!

Hah! With the top down you'd be frozen stiff the first few miles:D:D:D

[oceanluvr30]

Followed the post with interest as we are looking at both options as well and one thing that was not mentioned directly it that unfortunately, in my opinion the more the family islands try to become a mini Paradise Island with big resorts and land developers with their golf courses not to mention the more pampered [demanding] traveler they attract...the less the islands retain their out of the way, laid back character. I saw it happen in Antigua and Bimini, as small as that island is...it is now chock a block on most weekends and all summer long with drunken partiers ...Paradise Island much the same with the god awful testament to bad taste and over-development Atlantis. West End with the Gin Su Mer development was another attempt ....these types of changes make the decision whether Keys/Bahamas harder for me....at the least you know what you have in the keys and with the current very strict building codes you can be confident that what you see is what you are going to live with. As opposed to the Bahamas that is not the case...a different government, a better economy and viola ...open the flood gates again. Now with all that said, i realize i am probably in the minority, since everyone wants their piece of paradise and what i consider to be paradise someone else thinks the deserted beach needs a new beach bar or Hyatt to turn it into their paradise/cash cow.

Just recalled this event the other day, when discussing the similar topic with another....years ago early 80's i was on a flight to St. Thomas and the guy sitting next to me was so happy as he was on his way to ST to open the first Dunkin Donut shoppe..it made me sick. Back then ST was much like parts of the Bahamas are still today....now...well forget it, it is a mini-Miami

with all this said..still tough to beat snorkeling Sandy Cay ......may have to flip a coin!

[gazeboman]

Our choice was strongly influenced by the "unlikely to change factor" in the Fl Keys. We lived there in the late 80's and the only significant change today is a better hospital and a nicer grocery store. A few more stricter rules governing building and developement but that is a plus for keeping things the same. In the 10 years we have been visiting Abaco We've seen significant changes, making the character of the islands very different.

We will still visit the abacos but for us the Keys is the more logical place for a 2nd home. There is not a better place for us for snorkeling and beaches than Abaco-just hope the aggeressive developement doesn't ruin that!!

[Charlotte Couple]

Perfect solution for the Keys vs Cays dilemma: Buy a boat you can comfortably live aboard and move back and forth as conditions warrant.

[trubahamian]

Our choice was strongly influenced by the "unlikely to change factor" in the Fl Keys. We lived there in the late 80's and the only significant change today is a better hospital and a nicer grocery store. A few more stricter rules governing building and developement but that is a plus for keeping things the same. In the 10 years we have been visiting Abaco We've seen significant changes, making the character of the islands very different.

We will still visit the abacos but for us the Keys is the more logical place for a 2nd home. There is not a better place for us for snorkeling and beaches than Abaco-just hope the aggeressive developement doesn't ruin that!!

Some folks are unhappy of wat Abaco has become.Not only have the Bahamas been "on sale" for too long but allowing the buyers to call the shots has caused us to lose our culture and identity. Viva la zoning.....

[cardude]

Perfect solution for the Keys vs Cays dilemma: Buy a boat you can comfortably live aboard and move back and forth as conditions warrant.


LOL. That's exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. For years I've had the crazy idea in my head of downsizing the house to something cheap and minimal for a home base after the kids get into college in 6 years, and then spending much of the time living on the boat. We are actually chartering a trawler in the Abacos this June, so maybe that will help my wife bite off on my idea.

To me, living on a boat seems to give you the perfect combination of a "home" in an exotic locale, and if that locale is no longer exotic enough or things just change for whatever reason, you pull up anchor and move on. I know I'm over simplifying here, but doesn't this seem like a good idea? What am I missing? What does it cost to keep a boat in the Bahamas year round? How about putting a boat in charter?

[gazeboman]

I know I'm over simplifying here, but doesn't this seem like a good idea? What am I missing? What does it cost to keep a boat in the Bahamas year round? How about putting a boat in charter?

That is a lifestyle q1uite a few people do. I would suggest you buy a place in the keys on a canal. We saw a few places that were not overly expensive-mostly double wides on canals where you can keep the boat. Then take off & cross over in good weather & enjoy the great islands at your liesure. When you go home you have all the conveniences of stateside living & still have the freedom to do whatever. Keep the trawler small with idea of economical maintenance, economical fuel consumption -twin perkins 4 cyl diesels is what I'd do.

[raptor]

Just got an email from Bud N' Mary's Marina in Islamorada tempting me with a deal. Haven't seen that from Hopetown.

[trubahamian]

Just got an email from Bud N' Mary's Marina in Islamorada tempting me with a deal. Haven't seen that from Hopetown.

Sweet deals and hens teeth in Hope Town? Not too often.:o

[vharrison]

Just got an email from Bud N' Mary's Marina in Islamorada tempting me with a deal. Haven't seen that from Hopetown.


What kind of deal?

[raptor]

One of the Capt's has a Stay and Fish package. I think I'm going to take it.

[SamFamAustin]

If we're talking the rental market as opposed to buying, I don't see why variable pricing isn't used more in the Bahamas. The tourist resort sandbar of which I live can see cottage and condo rates vary between 75 and 450 dollars a night. I know that's a wild swing, but it works! The big peak weekends are the most expensive, of course, and off-season weekdays are the cheapest, if not just to generate some revenue because a little cash is better than nothing. We know this as "value pricing."

Even the mom & pop operations here are very aggressive about this. You can run an internet ad with key words that Google with pick up. Many of these smaller operators have better occupancy rates than the signature resorts that carry semi-inclusive flight + room deals. It's a lot of work and vacationers do have to snoop around for the hot deals, but you can find deals that save 50 percent or more.

[raptor]

We go to the town of Hatteras every single April School Vacation. When it is a full week and we rent a house, the prices are different than in high season in the summer. If we are only fishing a couple of days with a lay day or two, the Capt. has a deal for his clients with a Motel. When I found a real good flight deal to MHH, I sniffed around for a lodging deal. NOT!

[gettin-there]

40% off now, 30% labor day.

http://www.seasprayresort.com/welcome.html

[island boy]

Now that is a good deal and at what I consider to be the best all around resort on Elbow Cay!
It's pretty tough to beat the "you are one of the family" type of atmosphere Sea Spray has always treated their guests to.

[raptor]

Hmmmmmm!!! Think I'll call Junior. Thanks for that Island Boy!

[SamFamAustin]

My folks went to Sea Spray one day, a rather popular marina and small resort area on Elbow with tons of charm, and thought is was the famed Abaco Forum "Palooza" as I had indicated to them by email and telephone.

So my dad asked Junior about who all these nice Palooza people were and if any knew his son Sam (me) and Junior said it was a private wedding reception, no problems, and to have a great time joining in the festivities. Oh well, it was a laugh all around near the Garbanzo Bar. 'Tis a magical place.

[trubahamian]

My folks went to Sea Spray one day, a rather popular marina and small resort area on Elbow with tons of charm, and thought is was the famed Abaco Forum "Palooza" as I had indicated to them by email and telephone.

So my dad asked Junior about who all these nice Palooza people were and if any knew his son Sam (me) and Junior said it was a private wedding reception, no problems, and to have a great time joining in the festivities. Oh well, it was a laugh all around near the Garbanzo Bar. 'Tis a magical place.

Junior is a gregarious person and does a great job making his guests feel totally at home.That attitude has always been Sea Spray though and it started from Monty and Ruth's time, it carried thru Wally's tenure and lives on today.I can't think of another place here where the General Manager,whether it was Monty,Wally or Junior sits at the bar and personally visits with all of his guests every evening before going home?:)

[gazeboman]

We've been struggling to decide for a while now. Here are the main points:

Peace & Beauty---Abaco wins
Comfort level of home for same $----Keys Wins
Cost & ease of travelto& from---Keys Wins
Snorkeling---Abaco Wins
Best Bar----Abaco (nippers) Wins
Health Care----Keys Wins
Services (power,water,communications,mercantile)---Keys Wins
Future Financial Predictability (taxes, services, travel to& from) Keys Wins

The true deciding category was the last one. The predictability of the $ is far better in the Keys. The thread "worst year in 19 years" is spot on. My fear is that the impending bahamian deficit will have to be made up from 2nd home owners. Anyway, we chose a place in the upper keys. We will still visit Guana regularly, it is too beautiful not to-just not the place for our 2nd home .

2 forum members have emailed me asking how the 2nd home thing was going so I thought I'd post here our thoughts after almost a year.

Peace & Beauty--Abaco still wins but the "back country" in nthe keys is far better than I thought it's different kind of peace beauty- see pics

comfort level-- We are very happy with our home-we could not have afforded to buy the same comfort level in abaco

best bar- wayyyy to many to pick from- still have only been to about half of em-keys wins for variety!

cost of travel--We have spent 13 weeks in the keys. For the same $ we would only have had 3 weeks on Guana, also no travel problems, delays or canceled flights

snorkeling-this was the biggest surprise-we have found the same level of beauty, fish life & coral in the keys, you just have to use a boat, no shore snorkeling to compare with abacos

health care- this one really waxs a keys win as we had an emerceny room need that had it happened in the abacos would have required an emergency flt to south florida

services- not one loss of power in 9 mos.,

Overall--Traffic & US 1 is a pain in the ---, Abacos beauty stills wins but not by much. Owning vs renting is better. Having that place to go to to get away from the negatives in the home environment anytime you want to is priceless. Still miss the abacos but will be visiting soon. For those considering a 2nd home location, I strongly recommend spending 4 consecutive weeks in the location you are considering.

[gazeboman]

all florida bay on a nice day

[Two Turtles]

So glad to hear you're enjoying your new getaway. The pictures are beautiful:) Thanks for the update!

[vharrison]

It looks like you have the dive flag up, did you get in the water? BRRRRRRRR I won't be back in till the water temp hits 80 again!

[gazeboman]

It looks like you have the dive flag up, did you get in the water? BRRRRRRRR I won't be back in till the water temp hits 80 again!

I used to "ice dive" in Wisconsin in february before dry suits!!! So yes I go in the water especially when there are "bugs" on the bottom. That spot always gets me dinner!!

[SamFamAustin]

Ice diving? The water at latitude 26 is in the low 70s now, a little cool for me but since with a rash guard surfing shirt (amazing stuff). South Padre island 72 degrees F, 69 in Naples, FL, Miami Beach is at 75, and it's probably the same trend in the Abacos, maybe warmer in spots. I'm a wussie so I stand in the water for 5 minutes and get used to it and then I dive in. :D

[Watercolours]

Its that traffic on US1 that would be hard to handle, but at least there is always something happening. But one good thing I remeber about the Fl. Keys is you always meet a new person while waiting to launch your boat at the ramp. Especialy on the weekends or holidays! The zoning laws are cool, at least you dont have to think about how you want to live as they have it figured out for you. Were would you rather be?

[gazeboman]

Its that traffic on US1 that would be hard to handle, but at least there is always something happening. But one good thing I remeber about the Fl. Keys is you always meet a new person while waiting to launch your boat at the ramp. Especialy on the weekends or holidays! The zoning laws are cool, at least you dont have to think about how you want to live as they have it figured out for you. Were would you rather be?

One reason I feel anyone in the 2nd home decision making process should spend at least 4 weeks at the location they are considering is the potential of being bored. After 4 weeks on Guana we had run out of new things to experience. Each individual will be different that way I guess.

Our community boat ramp is never crowded, actually the only time I ever waited was opening day of lobster season. There are a lot of nice friendly people in the keys but a lot more crabs than there are in abaco-above & below water crabs!!!

The zoning laws were one of the reasons we chose the keys. No surprises in the future and no Bakers Bay or walmarts will ever be there. Now, if only I could import a few of the abaco beaches to the keys !!!!

I love Abaco & will always look forward to visiting, just not the place for our 2nd home.

[raptor]

What have you found for beaches, accessible from land but also from a boat? We like the general area you are in the best of what we've seen in the Keys. Checked into leaving our center console at the Tavernier Marina by the bridge.

[gazeboman]

What have you found for beaches, accessible from land but also from a boat? We like the general area you are in the best of what we've seen in the Keys. Checked into leaving our center console at the Tavernier Marina by the bridge.

Well there are very few. Bahia Honda state park is a decent beach at about mm46 ocean side. Founders Park at mm 89 bayside. Most of what you find are very small for example our homeowners park has a small beach and Harry Harris park at MM92 has a nice man made beach/lagoon with an excellent boat ramp. The Lorelie-great bar accesable by boat has a small man made beach.You will not find an "abaco class" beach in the keys. Tavernier Creek is a good spot to get both sides access to fishing. Fishing of late has been awesome!!

[SamFamAustin]

In a way I find this topic to be imminently depressing. Basically, we all love the Abacos (which is why we're here on this forum) but the message is becoming one that there are other options which make more sense to the pocketbook or wallet. The Abacos have come a long way since the early 1980s when a few hippies, artists, fishermen, and cruisers "discovered" the Abacos on the map, not 120 miles off Florida on the far side of the Bahamas Bank. I don't think it was all that expensive back then, except if one was part of the yacht club scene, high society, or British sort where suits and ties for dinner were de rigeur.

Indeed, many rugged individuals went to the Abacos as a form of escapism, not unlike how the Loyalists settled there so as to live in peace, and the lack of roads, telephones, electricity, and most modern conveniences was nearly absent - and the weekly mail boat was about the only social activity besides meeting under a fig tree for "sip-sip" or somewhere like that.

Now that the Abacos has been Boomered, Yuppified, and Modernized to US standards, our expectations seemed to have changed. It's not quite up to Key West standards for conveniences, is it? Sometimes the power works or fries your electrical appliances, or the phone goes dead, or the roads or docks wash away, which generates lots of discussion because apparently, the Abacos is for sissies now.

I don't mean to be harsh in saying that, and nobody can fault a person for wanting to do what they consider to make the most economic sense based on access, comfort, value, affordability, security, and other merits. For a variety of reasons, many Americans just don't like the new requirements for passports and all the new duties, fees, and taxes on foreigners vacationing or buying beach cottages abroad. Even flying, which used to be fun, is now a dreaded chore littered with failure at every step. And what's with all these new duties and expenses? I completely understand, as I feel some of that sentiment as well. It is like the Age of Innocence is over.

Now let's go prove 'em wrong! :D

[raptor]

There is a lot to what you say that I agree with. We spent a winter (1993/1994) at Betty's Acre in the eastern Harbour of Man'O War and felt like we were on the same Island we live on in Maine. Our Daughter was in First Grade and my wife was a teacher at the time so it was easy. And, we could afford it, including having a boat rented all the time.

Gazeboman, what about beaches by boat? We have a 26 Regulator.

Then we started to go to Hopetown as she grew up and we liked that too. Made lots of friends in both places. Then the prices started to go crazy in my opinion. Then it didn't seem to feel as good.

We are used to losing power, often days at a time. Fifteen miles to get gas or diesel from our house. Same for groceries. So inconvenience is nothing new. Oh well.

[trubahamian]

Its that traffic on US1 that would be hard to handle, but at least there is always something happening. But one good thing I remeber about the Fl. Keys is you always meet a new person while waiting to launch your boat at the ramp. Especialy on the weekends or holidays! The zoning laws are cool, at least you dont have to think about how you want to live as they have it figured out for you. Were would you rather be?

It was a bit of culture shock for a Bahamian,but I lived in Sugar Loaf Key for a year,visited every Key,spent more time in Key West than I should have and loved it all.The only times there was ever any stress on the roads was during the holidays or if there was an accident on the over seas highway. Personally...I love the Keys and the lifestyle,it een home but it een bad!

[trubahamian]

In a way I find this topic to be imminently depressing. Basically, we all love the Abacos (which is why we're here on this forum) but the message is becoming one that there are other options which make more sense to the pocketbook or wallet. The Abacos have come a long way since the early 1980s when a few hippies, artists, fishermen, and cruisers "discovered" the Abacos on the map, not 120 miles off Florida on the far side of the Bahamas Bank. I don't think it was all that expensive back then, except if one was part of the yacht club scene, high society, or British sort where suits and ties for dinner were de rigeur.

Indeed, many rugged individuals went to the Abacos as a form of escapism, not unlike how the Loyalists settled there so as to live in peace, and the lack of roads, telephones, electricity, and most modern conveniences was nearly absent - and the weekly mail boat was about the only social activity besides meeting under a fig tree for "sip-sip" or somewhere like that.

Now that the Abacos has been Boomered, Yuppified, and Modernized to US standards, our expectations seemed to have changed. It's not quite up to Key West standards for conveniences, is it? Sometimes the power works or fries your electrical appliances, or the phone goes dead, or the roads or docks wash away, which generates lots of discussion because apparently, the Abacos is for sissies now.

I don't mean to be harsh in saying that, and nobody can fault a person for wanting to do what they consider to make the most economic sense based on access, comfort, value, affordability, security, and other merits. For a variety of reasons, many Americans just don't like the new requirements for passports and all the new duties, fees, and taxes on foreigners vacationing or buying beach cottages abroad. Even flying, which used to be fun, is now a dreaded chore littered with failure at every step. And what's with all these new duties and expenses? I completely understand, as I feel some of that sentiment as well. It is like the Age of Innocence is over.

Now let's go prove 'em wrong! :D

Wat can I say Sammie? Like it or not the truth is the truth and our beautiful Cay has become an annex of Florida with sky-high prices that have stressed locals far beyond their abilities to keep up particularly in this economy.:(

[SamFamAustin]

Wat can I say Sammie? Like it or not the truth is the truth and our beautiful Cay has become an annex of Florida with sky-high prices that have stressed locals far beyond their abilities to keep up particularly in this economy.:(

I'm not too sure if anyone speaks "the trut'" these days and certainly not me, but two nights ago I had the most remarkable dream. You know dreams, they don't make any sense but there I was in a remote part of the Abacos, and decided I needed to build a house because the bushes were getting mighty uncomfortable with all the nippers and crawlers and Yahoes. So I started digging holes for foundation pilings and here come some curious conchs, black folks and a few Haitians who for some odd reason wanted to help. OK I say, but I ain't got no money nohow, but you're welcome here. Somehow, the more we worked, the more food and sust we got, and we built a main home and then some very stout little cottages so the families could have some privacy and before long we had a tiny settlement, complete with solar power and the what-nots and geegaws. By golly, we was ranching conchs, raising peppas, growing veggies, and training young girlie pigs to do cool tricks for the tourists! Surviving and nearly gettin' fat, too! You know dreams mon, all crazy. :D

[raptor]

God is great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy!!!!!

[gazeboman]

Gazeboman, what about beaches by boat? We have a 26 Regulator.

All the places I mentioned are accessable to you with your boat. If you are looking for beaches accessable only by boat the way we are used to in the abacos, there aint much. There are some cool places to go by boat that can only be accessed by boat. Indian Key is a neat historical site with a small sand spit of a beach. Lignumvitae Key is an amazing botanical park with cool history. Little Palm Island if you want "ritz". And if you want a cool party atmosphere there is the sandbar at Holiday Isle which is dry at high tide. Most Saturdays especially in the summer, boats gather there and have a party sort of like "disappearing Island".

1st 3-Indian Key 2nd 3 Lignumvitae Key

[gazeboman]

God is great, Beer is Good, and People are Crazy!!!!!

AND--Kalik Gold on sale right now at Publix -$38.50/case

[gazeboman]

In a way I find this topic to be imminently depressing. Basically, we all love the Abacos (which is why we're here on this forum) but the message is becoming one that there are other options which make more sense to the pocketbook or wallet. or somewhere like that. :D

Consider this Sammie-- If you could buy a really nice place for under a mil, if there was health care, if there was easy/inexpensive transportation-the charm & beauty that is the abacos would disappear real quick. But the downside to that equation is that the young abaconians are finding it harder to stay there --at least that is what I've been told-someone slap me upside the head if I am wrong:cool:

[raptor]

To my beach question: I'm thinking where you anchor the boat in 3 feet of water at Low Tide and wade to shore and have a picnic, or a beer, or water the Labrador dog, or whatever. Without anyone looking at you close and personal.

To deeper thoughts: A really close 25 year old Haitian/Bahamas National friend was in Maine this summer, working on a yacht. He's been to our house for Christmas in the past, Talanted guy. He's out of Hopetown and out of the Bahamas because you just can't make the money to keep up with the out of control costs everyone bears there.

[gazeboman]

To my beach question: I'm thinking where you anchor the boat in 3 feet of water at Low Tide and wade to shore and have a picnic, or a beer, or water the Labrador dog, or whatever. Without anyone looking at you close and personal..

Go out tavernier creek to oceanside, to your left will be a small key (Tavernier Key) proceed around the key oceanside, do not try going between the key and mainland. On the north side of the key is what ou are looking for. There are "no motorized craft" bouys, I've gone to the inside by 200 yds or so with no problem. About 2' of water at mean low. If you are lucky you might be able to score a legal bug or two snorkeling around in the grass. The key is mostly mangroves with a path or two to explore. On the NNW area is the remains of an old barge with good small tropicals.

[Flatfish]

So, y'all like to go on vacation where they have Wally World, Sam's Club, Costco, and 80,000 square foot supermarkets? Ummmm, okay, different strokes for different folks.

Totally agree, Sam! Right on.