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  #1  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:34 AM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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New Airport Terminal

Hi Everyone,

The good news is that the preliminary designs for the new Marsh Harbour airport terminal were revealed and the project will go out for bids very quickly.

The bad news is that the proposed building has REALLY, REALLY serious and obvious design flaws that we'll be stuck with for a very long time.

Here are just 4 of 30:

1) International ticket counter space will be 30% or so LESS than what we currently have!

2) There's a VIP lounge, but it's in the international ARRIVAL area!

3) There is no door by the luggage belt, so when it breaks or power goes out......!

4) There is room for only one more airline.

You can see the plans in the 15 September issue of The Abaconian.

What's really disappointing is that the plans were announced on Friday, September 6th in a 20 minute presentation and the architect is now finalizing the plans. We once again have no input, no way to make positive suggestions. Nothing has been learned from the BEC power plant fiasco.

The architect was chosen because (quoting The Hon. Neko Grant, Minister of Public Works and Transportation) "his fee was right, and his time to deliver is quick". Oh brother. In other words fast and cheap for a crucial piece of infrastructure.

Please join us in emailing Mr Grant and The Prime Minister and send letters to The Nassau Tribune and The Punch asking for a 30 day delay so we can provide positive, constructive suggestions for the terminal.

Thanks and Cheers -- SusieAndAl
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:56 AM
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Two Turtles Two Turtles is offline
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Has the architect ever flown in and out of the current airport
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2010, 03:34 PM
Blue Moon Cottage Blue Moon Cottage is offline
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susie,
please provide addresses and emails for where those letters need to go.
thanks
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2010, 04:17 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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Here they are. Our letters thank the government for actually moving ahead, and politely asking for a simple thirty day period so everyone who lives here will have a chance to make constructive recommendations.

The Hon. Neko C. Grant

Minister of Public Works and Transport

nekogrant@bahamas.gov.bs
ngrant@bahamas.com


The Rt. Hon. Hubert Alexander Ingraham
Prime Minister

hubertingraham@bahamas.gov.bs
primeminister@bahamas.gov.bs


The Tribune
letters@tribunemedia.net


The Punch
thepunch@coralwave.com


Thanks!
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:29 PM
gamecock gamecock is offline
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is no such thing as a govt design without flaws
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:06 PM
Blue Moon Cottage Blue Moon Cottage is offline
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bump
please write letters to the addresses provided to voice your thoughts
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:56 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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Gamecock,

We disagree but won't argue a general view. What's crucial here is this:

The Marsh Harbour Airport is VITAL. It, the port and Treasure Cay airport mean economic life or death here.

The flaws are so egregious they will seriously impact everyone here, and the impact will last for DECADES. Not to mention we will be the laughing stock of the aviation world. (We can hear it now: "Hey, after a 20 year delay, those folks built a new $12M terminal and somehow managed to reduce international ticket counter space by a third! Expansion for that or security? Nope, the way it's designed, expansion will mean a total redo").

Blue Moon,

Thank you so much for your help.

Cheers -- SusieAndAl
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:59 PM
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Two Turtles Two Turtles is offline
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While the Marsh Harbor airport project might not have the environmental impact of the power plant, hopefully the judge's decision (see PatW's post today on the power plant) will encourage the "powers that be" to be a little more receptive to input regarding the new airport project. The main focus of the judge's decision seemed to be the timing of the complaint. Since as far as we know only preliminary plans have been signed off on, the final architectural plans for the construction probably have not, and one could "assume" that no permits have been pulled.
I think writing the letters is a great idea, and if the Sept. 15 issue shows the plans, I'd sure like to see it first. I tried to get it on line but could only get to Sept. 1.
I was also wondering from some of you longtimers (notice I didn't call you oldtimers!) if those of us who have only just started going to the Abacos should combine our suggestions in one letter signed by all.
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2010, 10:20 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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Hi Two Turtles,

First, thanks for your post.

Second, no, the go ahead has been given for final plans based on the initial design and bids are going out shortly so time is of the essence.

Third, no, it would be unwise for lots of folks (including us) with no formal education/experience on airport terminal design to flood the government with suggestions. Rather, individual letters to the aforementioned asking for a 30 day review period so all thoughts and ideas can be assessed by our Chamber of Commerce and vetted by real pros then forwarded to the government seems to be the right way to go.

Here is Mr Ralph's editorial (copyright 2010 The Abaconian) published 15 September:

Editorial - Comments on the terminal plan

As this is being written, September 8, detailed plans for the terminal for our Marsh Harbour airport are being drawn by an architectural firm in Freeport. The Hon. Neko Grant, Minister of Works, came to Abaco on September 3 to give a short presentation of the preliminary plans to a group of about 20 persons.

Mr. Grant gave a 20 minute overview of the project with most of his presentation focused on the terminal building itself. Questions and comments followed. The meeting ended with those in the room studying the large plans displayed on the wall.

The building is scheduled to handle Abaco’s growth for 10 years or more and has provisions for expansion on the domestic eastern side, on the departure lounge facing south and to the western side where Customs and Immigration will be located. However, no expansion seems possible in the middle area where the ticketing counters are located or the security check-in area.

The contract with the architectural firm in Freeport was signed about a month ago, and this was the first set of preliminary drawings to be made public. Mr. Grant was proud to announce that with this public viewing and input from those present, the drawings and suggestions would be handed to the architect on Monday morning, September 6, for an immediate start on the final detailed drawings. When these drawings are complete, they will be given to contractors for tender, and bids will be received. It is expected that construction will begin in December or January.

The general mood was one of excitement. The detailed plans were on the way, provisions were made for growth and construction would begin at the end of the year. Mr. Grant rolled up the plans and headed back to Freeport. There was nothing more to look at, nothing more to ponder, nothing more to be said.

Just before Mr. Grant boarded the plane on Sunday morning for Freeport, I borrowed the presentation book to take photographs of the terminal plans. I subsequently shared these with Michael Albury, President of the Abaco Chamber of Commerce, and Abaco Chamber Board members. Some of these plans are seen on page five. Separately, Michael and I did a mental walk-through and made lists with over 30 points to consider. These were sent to Mr. Grant prior to his meeting with the architects on Monday morning.

Insufficient ticket counters for the international carriers concerned Mr. Albury, and he phoned the architect on Monday to discuss this. The space allocated for international ticketing has 33 percent less space than now available in the present building. As far as we can tell, there are spaces for ten agents. These are international size ticket counters that give each agent 3.5 feet of work space.

The airport now has nine airlines serving Marsh Harbour from Florida. The three largest are American Eagle presently with nine feet of counter space, Continental Connection with 10 feet and Bahamasair with 12 feet. They will each be restricted to seven feet allowing two ticket agents for each airline to check in passengers.

These three airlines will be using six of the ten counters. That leaves four ticket counters to be shared among six other carriers. There appears to be no with no space for additional airlines such as Delta that last year showed an interest in coming here.

Has someone decided that we don’t need any more airlines coming here? Even the most skeptical politician has noted that Abaco’s growth is not stagnant but continues to expand.

On Monday, September 6, the day that the architect was told to go ahead, the directors of the Abaco Chamber of Commerce met and reviewed the situation. They were dismayed that the plans were not shown to the public or the broader business community. A specific concern related to the apparent lack of counter space for our international carriers.

On Tuesday evening, September 7, the Chief Councillors Association (for Abaco) met and a presentation was made by the Chamber president. The Chief Councillors were equally concerned.

It is ironic that after the BEC fiasco with the Wilson City power plant and the resulting public outcry over many issues, government is repeating its public relations mistake of forging ahead without public consultation. Government and BEC officials have been criticized severely for spending $100 million on the power plant without any local input. Some of the BEC issues still have not been resolved even though the plant is nearing completion. Even some BEC officials have acknowledged that millions of dollars could have been saved had some location and design changes been made at an early stage.

Now we are being given a $12 million terminal and control tower to serve as the gateway to Central and South Abaco, and we are excluded from the process. In fact, it is our revenue to government that is paying for the building that government is giving us.

The plans were displayed at 5 p.m. on Friday and subsequently removed. Approximately 20 people had Saturday and Sunday to ponder their memory of the presentation and comment to the Minister before the plans went to the architect on Monday. Of the 20 persons given the presentation, 14 were government employees who could be expected to nod their heads in approval.

Now are we going to passively stand by and watch a $12 million building be erected with apparent shortcomings from the onset? Incidentally, the $12 million is for an empty but functional building. Furnishings and equipment will add to this total.

Abaco residents and visitors are expected to live with this new terminal for 10 or more years. Neither the politicians in Nassau nor the architects in Freeport will have to endure its inadequacies. We understand the politicians’ desire to see construction get underway and be completed. But it appears that in haste there is poor allocation of interior space. It would appear that a 30-day delay allowing our stakeholders to give meaningful input would pay long-term dividends. We may be anxious for the terminal, but we owe it to Abaco’s future to see that it is done properly. Allowing public input would deflect any future criticism as is continually being levied against BEC and its refusal to communicate.

There is the realization that Nassau and Freeport persons will view a delay as another sign that the Abaco people are being obstructionists again. However, we are paying for the building, we will have to live with it and we want to see it done right.
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2010, 10:32 PM
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Two Turtles Two Turtles is offline
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Susie and Al, thanks for the info. I will send my letter re the 30 days tomorrow!
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:04 PM
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Letter sent!
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2010, 09:51 AM
Blue Moon Cottage Blue Moon Cottage is offline
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Keep the letters going and please do it soon
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  #13  
Old 09-23-2010, 02:10 PM
180degrees 180degrees is offline
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Golly Gee

If the airport "expansion" is still going to make it less than pleasant to come to Abaco, isn't that a good thing? Less growth perhaps, and consequently fewer people. Things might stay the same for longer. Also the power plant won't be outgrown so quickly.
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  #14  
Old 09-23-2010, 02:32 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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180,

Close your eyes and imagine that you live on a small island. You have a wife and two children, and you have to care for your ailing parents.

Your income depends completely on tourism and foreigners who purchase second homes.

Now imagine having your airport rebuilt in such a way that not only will it not improve access, but actually cut it and this change will last for at least 10 - 20 years. What is the outlook for your children? Will they be forced to leave because they can't find a good job?

Now, open your eyes and please let us all know if you still feel the same way.

And BTW, the new power plant does have capacity for growth for at least the next twenty years (but that's another story).

Cheers,

SusieAndAl

Al

Last edited by SusieAndAl; 09-23-2010 at 02:34 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:09 PM
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Patty&Rudi Patty&Rudi is offline
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We're just back from Japan and catching up on our brains, Al, but we will get our letters done and emailed today.

And thank you very much for bringing this up.

You know - being in a country this past week where everything is efficient, organized, helpful, polite, where they go out of their way in every facet of their lives to ensure the comfort and happiness of their guests... and this includes at Narita, a massive massive airport that feels as comfy as the one in Victoria BC that uses 4 little gates and a few larger ones, and you get your luggage in ten minutes... makes you think.

The guests that use these two airports, Narita and Victoria, find them VERY user-friendly, and they don't mind coming back, and in fact it is a pleasure to fly through them.

A case in point - we flew over to Japan last week with one large suitcase. With Air Canada we have a baggage allowance of four bags internationally, 50 pounds each = 200 pounds. We took one bag with 47 pounds, then took out all the gifts we'd brought and thought we'd go back lighter.

But we bought some amazing things and came back 5 kilos heavier. It would have been $100 extra. We would have paid it.

But the woman at the counter in Narita wouldn't have it. She called a man who brought a box (very sturdy) and we offloaded enough to make it about 5 kilos. In fact, when she saw that we were filling it with some magnificent traditional silk Japanese jackets she had him stop, she was fine with us being a bit over now! And then they went to find packing material, air bags and bubble wrap and they gently filled the box, sealed it with a great packing tape (everything is done well in Japan; we wish we had packing tape like that!) and gently carried it to the luggage area.

We paid zero. And they would not allow us to pay the overage, or for the extra packing or the box, etc. They wanted us to be pleased. We were. Totally. Always.

That colours your view of the country, the airport, the people, the government. It is a very GOOD experience. We don't sit outside in the rain to wait for a flight there. We don't walk in one at a time to get tickets for a flight because there's not enough space for two in a family to do so because there are other people crowding in as well.

An airport for Abaco should be a boon for the economy, offer ease of use for its users and employees, and be a source of pride for the locals and the government.

Patty
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  #16  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:23 PM
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http://www.tribune242.com/sports/092...siness_Page1-6

"Mar Vanderpool-Wallace said Abaco accounts for 28 per cent of stopover visitors to the Bahamas, so its airport redevelopment will serve as a model for upgrades on other islands."

I would love to see the plans for the airport. I see the biggest problem with the current airport being just the waiting area size. I would hate to see an unnecessary conveyor belt baggage handling system added. There is no reason to try to be O'hare.
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Poison Wood Poison Wood is offline
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Come On!!!!!

What in the world did you expect???????? I can't even believe this is being discussed.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:39 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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Welcome home and so very well said!

Yes, I've been to Japan many times and totally agree. Actually, the most amazing airport I've ever been to was Singapore. On a fully packed flight from LA, our luggage was waiting for us after we cleared immigration, which took exactly 10 minutes! Hong Kong is a close second.

But back to the point, this a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a piece of infrastructure that helps all of Abaco in a very significant way and will strongly influence its future for generations.

Thanks so much for writing the letters.

Cheers -- Al
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  #19  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:43 PM
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Two Turtles Two Turtles is offline
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While we can all go back and forth on the airport matter for now, if ya'll write a short letter like SusieAndAl requested, there's a chance it can be a much longer conversation!
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  #20  
Old 09-23-2010, 06:37 PM
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DrRalph DrRalph is offline
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Al, this may be the ultimate naiveté, but is there any mention of air conditioning in the plans for the new terminal? I must confess with a modicum of humility that some of the very few miserable moments I have spent in Abaco were waiting at the airport in extreme heat and humidity with a Grade 4 hangover for a plane that was running two hours late. You can't leave when they keep telling you "just a few more minutes."

And...how 'bout restrooms? At times they get pretty nasty, could be larger, cooler.
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  #21  
Old 09-23-2010, 11:10 PM
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That's when you go over to the little COLD bar not far from the terminal.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:02 AM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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LOL! Been there too!

Yes, definite improvements on both.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2010, 11:31 AM
cobra cobra is offline
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Big Town Meeting is planned for this evening at 6 in Dundas Town. Minister Neko Grant will chair the meeting at which time he will hear comments regarding the design of the Airport Terminal Building.

Upon viewing the plans myself, I think we should begin with a blank sheet of paper. Not much redemption for what was presented. Expansion would be difficult and disruptive.

Airport planning and design is an acquired skill without which one can not do this kind of work.

Better that we delay this project and get it right, as it will be with us for a long time down the road.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2010, 03:25 PM
SusieAndAl SusieAndAl is offline
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Please come to the meeting

Cobra,

Thank you so much for your post.

Everyone here in Abaco, PLEASE show up. It is being held in Dudas at the building just past the Methodist church as you go north from Marsh.

Our objective should be clear: a 30 day delay so we can collate, parse and prioritize our concerns and constructive criticism which will be vetted by true professionals and then forwarded to the government, with a commitment in return for total and complete replies to our list IN PUBLIC WITHIN 30 DAYS. No more, no less.

This should NOT be a "b*tch" session. Making individual suggestions re the design would also be bad as we are not professional airport architects and could send the meeting into a tailspin.

See you all there.

Cheers -- Al
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:13 PM
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SamFamAustin SamFamAustin is offline
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I agree that we're not professional airport architects, but airport terminal planning entails many aspects, one of them being what YOU would like to see because you are the customers. Don't cut yourself short. For example if there are concerns about international flight desks being smaller or not seemingly adequate, you're probably correct. You don't need a fancy statistical model to prove that.

As Doc pointed out, sometimes for one reason or another, arrivals and departures can be delayed, which begs for an adequately sized lobby area with seats, restrooms, A/C, and other amenities.

If you want to get into numbers, we have about 200,000 visitors pass through the airport gates every year, but those traffic times tend to be scrunched together and not spread throughout all hours of the year. Thus we need to know what an average "peak throughput" is and then plop on another 20 percent of square footage for growth, perhaps.

This is not fancy math, and even the pros don't get into delays as a part of airport design. If delay was included in the mix, for example, La Guardia Airport in NYC would have to be twice as large! And, being a small regional airport, one doesn't need to get into complicated throughput models such as FAAED or the newer ones, which are more congestion oriented with lots of taxiways and terminal gates.

This is simple planning ... and as I used to teach my classes, you're all natural experts at it once you learn some of the jargon and mumbo-jumbo. I don't think the existing drawings are all that bad, but could be better organized so as to improve upon efficiency.

By the way, has anyone heard from Alex? FloridaCargoCat is sort of our resident airport expert.
-sammie
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2010, 04:24 PM
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patw patw is offline
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"By the way, has anyone heard from Alex?"

Axel is Floridacargocat.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SamFamAustin View Post
I agree that we're not professional airport architects, but airport terminal planning entails many aspects, one of them being what YOU would like to see because you are the customers. Don't cut yourself short. For example if there are concerns about international flight desks being smaller or not seemingly adequate, you're probably correct. You don't need a fancy statistical model to prove that.

As Doc pointed out, sometimes for one reason or another, arrivals and departures can be delayed, which begs for an adequately sized lobby area with seats, restrooms, A/C, and other amenities.

If you want to get into numbers, we have about 200,000 visitors pass through the airport gates every year, but those traffic times tend to be scrunched together and not spread throughout all hours of the year. Thus we need to know what an average "peak throughput" is and then plop on another 20 percent of square footage for growth, perhaps.

This is not fancy math, and even the pros don't get into delays as a part of airport design. If delay was included in the mix, for example, La Guardia Airport in NYC would have to be twice as large! And, being a small regional airport, one doesn't need to get into complicated throughput models such as FAAED or the newer ones, which are more congestion oriented with lots of taxiways and terminal gates.

This is simple planning ... and as I used to teach my classes, you're all natural experts at it once you learn some of the jargon and mumbo-jumbo. I don't think the existing drawings are all that bad, but could be better organized so as to improve upon efficiency.

By the way, has anyone heard from Alex? FloridaCargoCat is sort of our resident airport expert.
-sammie
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:32 PM
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Two Turtles Two Turtles is offline
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I hope that if they are willing to accept the input, it will be from all of the Abacos and not just Marsh since they are planning to use the Marsh improvements as a model for other the airports.
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  #28  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:24 PM
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SamFamAustin SamFamAustin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patw View Post
"By the way, has anyone heard from Alex?"

Axel is Floridacargocat.
Told you I was dyslexic!!!!
Thanks PatW, hope you are feeling great.
sammie
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